Episode 502: Is this the End of the Billable Hour?

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Welcome everyone to another episode of Dynamics Corner.

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I'm excited about this subscription, not the BC subscription, but the implementation subscription and a fixed implementation.

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I'm your co-host, Chris.

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And this is Brad.

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This episode is recorded on February 8th, 2026.

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26, Chris, I got it right this time.

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We're in the proper yeah.

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It is.

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It's a lot of changes coming around in the world with technology.

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A lot of changes coming to many places.

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And we had an interesting conversation today talk about subscription services for Business Central development, as well as fixed bid uh implementations or projects for Business Central.

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With us today, we had the opportunity to speak with Christina Golden.

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Good morning, sir.

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How are you doing?

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Hey guys.

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I'm doing very well, thank you.

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Very well, I'm gonna go back to the video.

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I like your background.

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So we'll just keep it as is.

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And I like it.

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It looks like you're looking down on me.

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Just like when we're in person.

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So I see.

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Well, I mean, I got two options.

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If I put you up on this screen, I did this because I got like a secondary screen, and then it looks like I'm looking in the sky.

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So no, no, look down.

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I like it.

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This is a fun it's it's a new year, fun look.

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And I I do like the background.

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I like the dinosaurs.

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Are they dinosaurs?

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Dragons, dragons, dragons, dinosaurs.

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There's another one over there.

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There's another one over there.

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Like uh hand-drawn.

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Yeah, there's this guy three-dimensional too.

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I mean, he's pretty good.

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I mean, there's this guy in um uh Washto Square Park that actually does this stuff.

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Um, I mean, I think semi-homeless, but he's always there in the at least in any season aside from winter.

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So like he usually does like I don't know, more like Bart Simpson type stuff like that and things like that.

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But I mean, I don't know.

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He did one dragon, which was the first one over there.

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I mean, if you can tell it was it's actually like he would just take cardboard pieces because see at the back of the on the corner, it's actually black because it was just burned, half burned.

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So he would just pick them up from the cardboard, pick them up from and then just draw on them.

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So I mean I bought one of them originally.

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I was like, I don't know, I just like that dragon.

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It looked like exhausted.

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So that one is probably more me at the end of the day after a lot of calls, because you just the guy just looks I start off exhausted.

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No, I like that type.

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See, I like the authenticity of that where it's a cardboard on the side of the street.

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It's just to me, it just makes it more uh I don't want to say natural, but just it's more you're you're adapting to whatever's in front of you and just drawing around it creating it.

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So he always says like a stack of this thing, so like then he did another one because I told him I like it, and then I actually ended up commissioning one which is on another wall, and that makes me a patron of arts, I guess, you know.

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There you go.

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You now are an art dragon collector.

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Yes.

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Well, actually, that was the other thing.

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He was like, I'm his dragon guy, he says he's only gonna draw those things for me and nobody else.

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Which I think was a fancy way to see because I haven't seen him in the last year and a half.

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Haven't seen him draw any dragons, which means he just was done with it, but this way something much better, you know?

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It's like only a few want it, you know.

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Well, at least it makes you feel good, and maybe maybe he's holding to that.

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When you're not there, you don't know what he's doing.

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But uh, I do like that, and I do like the support of that, I do like the authenticity of that natural art.

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I think in the world of technology, having some of that good, you know, true art work is refreshing.

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Uh everything's becoming you know, you look online, you look anywhere.

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That's all the art that you see.

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I'll use the word art loosely, is all generated.

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I mean, many argue that that's still art and such, but um, it's not like you know the classic art that we have with the one of a kinds and such.

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So you still have a banana tape to a wall that's all for a lot of millions, so you know.

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That is real, that is real stuff there, you know.

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That is true.

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One man's what's one man's trash is another man's treasure.

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And I think that holds true with a lot of things.

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And uh you know, I've been looking forward to speaking with you about this topic because this is a topic I have been talking about for some time, maybe from a different angle than you have, but I think we come together uh in the middle with it.

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Before we jump into it, mind tell us a little bit about yourself.

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Um, I mean my name is Christian Nicola.

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Um and I mean I've been in the I guess the vision nav business central space since 1999.

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So I don't know what is that at this point, I guess 26 years almost, right?

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So I mean it started as a joke while I was still in college.

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It was just like a little sort of trainee ship at the vision in Vedbec, and you know, I remember falling asleep during the training, I was like accounting.

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Who, you know, who cares about this stuff, right?

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But and also the the stories I went, well, after that, basically the story is that they're supposed to send us, you know, there's a whole group of us, they're supposed to send us either to US, UK, or Germany, right?

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Those are the three things, you know, to do some work, right?

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Um, and then basically Germany, I mean, not necessarily wrongly.

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They were like, well, if you don't speak the language, it's gonna be kind of tough, which they were probably not, you know, not wrong about it.

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But then the stupid thing was like US, they were like, oh, we can't US were like, we can't take them.

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They don't know about sales tax, it's too complicated, they will never understand.

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They just know VAT.

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I mean, granted, it's a little bit more complicated than VAT, but I mean it's not necessarily something that you can't wrap your head around it, right?

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So that's how I ended up, uh that's how I ended up in UK, right?

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And I mean I wasn't really excited, it's an accounting, and I mean in my time I was programming stuff in like you know, low-level assembler or otherwise, like, you know, Linux and all sorts of cool stuff.

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This this programming I could have done it when I was in you know 10 years old.

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Um, but I've you know the story is I went to UK to work for like whatever that thread, that that sort of contract, original contract was like three to six months to get some money to buy myself a new computer, right?

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Then I ended up staying for two years, then ended up coming to US, and you know, in the meantime I did get a computer, you know.

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So I think I achieved my goal.

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Uh that original one, actually, you know what the original one might be in one of my you know storage storage stuff that I have somewhere, you know, the original, like sort of like good old-fashioned like IBMs before they were the novels or whatever.

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But yeah, yeah.

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I wish I kept so much stuff from back then.

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It's uh I try to to not accumulate or collect so much stuff, but thinking now back that I've been doing it just as long as you have, and you think back to like the manuals, the mouse pads, the keyboard strips.

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I have a keyboard strip, the notepads.

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Like we had all this cool stuff, the discs.

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Do you remember when you had the discs that you had to install?

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And so I wish I kept all of that because it would be sort of a nice walk back, a walk down memory lane.

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And as you had mentioned, I think uh I started the same thing too.

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I I started a job uh on Wednesday and on Saturday I was flying to Atlanta and I was there for four weeks.

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So to go to the academy.

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So it's kind of like the thing that we all did back then, and I think it'd be interesting to walk uh down memory lane to see all that stuff because those manuals are like gold.

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I don't know if you remember that.

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Like if you had people asking me still like halfway my career, like people asking for manuals, and I knew there were from like the older 2.6.

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I don't know if they ever got to like 310, but I remember there were like you know, manuals with the blue, you know, yeah, yes.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And the the strips, it's why you mentioned the keyboard strips because I mean you know, David Singleton and I, we you know we'd have been easing about this at some point.

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You know, it's when you went training and vision like in Vedbec, right?

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They would literally take your mouse away.

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And they would be go do whatever you need to do, right?

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You know, those are like the two we've uh you know, we call them like purity tests, right?

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One, you know, can you use the vision without a mouse?

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And technically the old versions you could.

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Two was create a brand new company, go set up everything, like just hit new company, nothing in it, like nah wizard, not nothing, and then go and set up everything, like from the general edge setup, sales that are you know, sales of receivable setup, you know, some basic posting groups, you know.

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I mean, you don't don't need to make a real company, but just the ability to make it to a level where you could actually post an order and to know to be able to do all those things.

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That see, I don't want to go down this, but that that brings back so much one, because a lot of that functionality is still there today, uh, the 20 something years later.

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Two, it's also a a sign of that you were doing development, I did development, but back then we did everybody did everything.

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You did uh implementations, you did development, you did training, you did data conversions, like you did everything.

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You are full stack.

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Now it's the application's so large and people have sort of uh segmented or segregated between the functions that you don't have many that can do both.

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A lot of people still can, don't get me wrong.

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But I think you have some people who are just you know purely functional, some people who are more technical in development.

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And then now, as I keep talking about everybody's being forced into the middle, uh uh, you know, with with AI coming in and technology, uh, development's changing, uh, the technical aspects changing, again, with a lot of the information coming uh uh public and available, because before it was only the partners had access to a lot of that information.

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You know, you had customer source and you had partner source, so you had a separation between what customers could do and what partners could do.

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And partner source is still around, by the way.

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It's slow as dog, but it's still around.

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They're probably running that same they're probably running that.

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Well, you have to do licenses and stuff for on-premises.

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You still need to get in there and generate them there.

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But it's probably the same technology that it was back in 1999, because uh I think I could manually write a license in the permissions table uh file that comes with it, how fast I can generate it.

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But to go into it, I think with with the changes uh in technology, and uh I'm not certain if that's the foundation of it, but yeah, with the way the world is today, uh you're you're promoting an interesting topic.

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And that topic is is something that you started recently.

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I saw that when you first started, I think it was sometime last year, if I'm correct, right?

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You started.

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Yeah, I mean, officially the effort was the well, I won't preparing the marketing efforts at the beginning of the year, but yeah, kind of like more went in force after the summer, right?

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After I learned a lot more about how to do marketing, but yes.

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So what is that approach?

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So the approach, I mean, I I the idea was provide providing services in a different manner, right, than hourly rate, you know, basically.

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I mean, there's a lot of reasons why I think that should happen, and I've obviously that we can discuss more about that.

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But the idea was just basically that's what I wanted to promote, right?

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And I think I was reading some articles because I immersed myself on talking there's in BC, so right now, I as far as I know nobody else is offering it in the US.

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I mean, David is kind of doing David Singleton is doing this in Australia.

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But I mean that there's some people that do this on CRM, Power Platform, and I mean across the world.

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I mean, and I've talked to each of them just to sort of learn about this.

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I've been sort of noodling on the concept and the approach, and I don't know necessarily that there's one single answer, and not even mine is totally finalized for like a few years, right?

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But then I was reading some articles recently, like at the recently at the time, at the beginning of the year, and at some point I was like, you know what?

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What's the most in your face marketing?

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So I look went to look for the domain hourly rate is dead, and it was available to my surprise.

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I mean, you know, so I basically theoretically the concept was hourly rate is dead.com, right?

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Umriginally, since I had talked to someone that I knew, so you have Andrew King in Canada that kind of does fixed price um fixed price implementations.

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It's not purely that, but it's probably close, right?

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Um, and then you had this someone that I was talking to that was uh uh CRM, right?

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So I even suggested to them like we should like when we go to um what was that dynamics card, right?

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I I Owli Rate is that doesn't necessarily need to be my sort of because it's kind of weird actually whenever I try to sort of you know send emails saying I'm from Owlly Rate is that anyway versus my company itself.

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But you know, could be also like a portal for people that offer services like this, right?

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So I was kind of talking to them, maybe doing like a John Micro thing, but it's kind of hard to bring people together.

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So for now it's basically just my services around Power BI and Business Central, uh offer the subscription at fixed price, you know.

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Uh so so the premise is the hourly rate is dead, and in your case, it's you have a subscription service.

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So it's basically development or implementation as a service.

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Where if you pay a fixed fee per month, you have uh implementation services for Power BI or Business Central.

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Yeah, so for yeah, for business central and for Power BI, yes, yeah, for both of them.

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It's an interesting model.

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And as I had mentioned, I have been saying for a long time that I think the way that in this industry, and it's not just within for business central, I think it's along the industry, that it's challenging to charge hourly rate for services.

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And a lot of people shy away from it because they think, well, you have a project, you have a scope.

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What if it goes out of scope and you um and you you know go over on the hours, as I say, or whatever that you estimate, and then you go into this, you know, that's why most of them have the time and the materials.

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But in your model, and I I want to dive into that because I'm passionate about that, even more so today with technology and what I see individuals doing with AI, where I think it's even a little more challenging to charge someone by the hour uh for services.

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So for a fixed fee, what do you with your services, what do you get for that fixed fee?

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Do you get any business central development and implementation?

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Or is there a pre a pretty defined scope of what's included within that uh uh uh service fee that you pay?

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Okay.

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Well, so first, I mean, as uh as I've learned through the last year of marketing, that you have to you know, words matter.

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So there's a difference between fixed price and subscription.

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The idea is we fixed price, which is one thing that we do offer, right?

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Is basically that is a defined scope and a defined price, right?

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You know?

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Now, my tweak on it, one is just personal because I hate, I don't really like to sort of sit there and do something that it's a CYA kind of document, right?

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Let's exhaust everything that you want and put it in the list so I can cover myself, right?

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I kind of put it at a high level, so therefore you have a little bit of wiggle room to solve it, right?

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But I think the tweak that I put on fixed price, and I mean, I don't know, you know, I mean, everybody can offer that.

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So what's what's the biggest issue?

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You know, even if everybody goes with with uh good intentions at the beginning and everybody thinks they understand what the other person does, and I mean I think I've done this for so long that a lot of times understand not what they say they want, but what they actually need, you're gonna find out by the end of it that something was different, right?

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Preferably something small, right?

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If someone comes and says, I need the tent, and then they re you realize they need a castle, that's a you know, that's a big problem.

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But generally it's more of you know, this house maybe need another bathroom or maybe just need extra windows or something like this, right?

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So my offer is for the fixed price, okay, you know what you're getting, it's basically we're gonna deliver that, and then for 30 days afterwards, it's not just the bug fixes or whatever you want to call that warranty stuff, which I've never done to 400 people.

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Any tweaks within the general scope of that will be included for 30 days.

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So that means you're not gonna get to this little, well, now that you found out that you need an extra window, you know how the house was you know$100,000, and now basically the extra window is another$20,000, right?

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You know, so that's the offering on the fixed price side, right?

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Essentially, it's kind of like this sort of guarantee at the end that look, you know, for 30 days, you know, essentially we'll do anything to make it fit you to fit what you actually really need and what we've learned through the process of going to that fixed price, right?

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So that's and I mean people do fixed price, so therefore, other than my little tweak tweets, I don't think that's necessarily as novel or as leaked as revolutionary.

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The subscription is so go back to the fixed price, though.

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I'm sorry to interrupt, I do want to talk about the subscription.

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It's I I can see that being challenging, and I uh everyone talks about fixed price, and I really appreciate your analogy to building a house and putting in a window.

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Because when I Chris, you hear me talk about this all the time.

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Any implementation, I equate it to a project of doing work on a house because, in essence, that's what you're doing.

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You know, if you really extrapolate it out, you have a business, you're doing work, they're building a house, they're doing an addition to a room, they're doing something.

00:16:56.720 --> 00:17:04.319
So it is the matter of if someone's coming to do work for you, they're going to renovate your bathroom.

00:17:04.559 --> 00:17:09.680
Most of the time, they're going to tell you to they'll come in, they'll look, they'll do an estimate to renovate your bathroom.

00:17:09.759 --> 00:17:11.200
You want this, this, and this.

00:17:11.359 --> 00:17:13.279
It's going to cost you$2,000.

00:17:14.559 --> 00:17:16.000
They charge you$2,000.

00:17:16.240 --> 00:17:19.599
If they get it done in a day, they get it done in five days, it's$2,000.

00:17:19.920 --> 00:17:25.680
If they run into issues, then they say, Oh, by the way, once we took out the old tub, we found you had rot.

00:17:26.799 --> 00:17:32.720
Now that you have rot, you need to add a little bit more to it because it would, you know, something that none of us knew.

00:17:32.880 --> 00:17:35.759
So now your$2,000 becomes$2,500.

00:17:35.920 --> 00:17:40.880
So it's not the hourly rate where you get to run on forever, in essence, right?

00:17:40.960 --> 00:17:44.960
Where some people think if you're doing an hourly rate, I'm bringing so much into this because I'm excited about this topic.

00:17:45.039 --> 00:17:48.640
And I I'll try to keep us on with um the services that you have.

00:17:49.279 --> 00:17:55.440
Some people feel that, okay, well, you're renting my bathroom, you tell me it's 10 hours, and then, oh, by the way, if it takes you 20, it takes you 20, right?

00:17:55.519 --> 00:17:58.799
Because I can go from 10 till whenever it's done.

00:17:59.279 --> 00:18:06.400
And I I see the challenges with that, and I see the hesitation with that, everybody, because then it almost is like the software industry is almost like lawyers, right?

00:18:06.559 --> 00:18:13.359
Where lawyers will pick up the phone, they'll talk to you, and they charge you seven minutes for just you know saying hello, uh, which leaves a bad taste.

00:18:13.519 --> 00:18:16.000
So now I appreciate the project.

00:18:16.319 --> 00:18:17.200
This is what it is.

00:18:17.279 --> 00:18:18.640
You get it done when you get it done.

00:18:18.799 --> 00:18:20.079
We identify what we need.

00:18:20.240 --> 00:18:27.839
Now, within yours, when you have a fixed bid and you're saying you have some additional tweaks to get it to your liking, what if someone tells you they wanted a room with no windows?

00:18:27.920 --> 00:18:29.680
They didn't even say they wanted a window.

00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:37.440
And now you frame the whole room up, you put the walls in, you put the brick on the outside because they wanted a brick house, and now they say we want a window.

00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:39.440
And now you have to like tear into the brick.

00:18:39.519 --> 00:18:43.920
It's not a small fix, it's actually a pretty significant change.

00:18:45.440 --> 00:18:52.640
Well, it's funny because you know, I mean, I think you guys know, but maybe not uh the audience, I mean I'm originally from Europe, but from Eastern Europe, right?

00:18:52.960 --> 00:18:59.440
So coming into America and the whole customer service with the customer is always right, it's always seemed a little bit weird to me.

00:18:59.519 --> 00:19:02.799
Like, I mean, even like the doggy bag, it was not a thing in Romania.

00:19:02.960 --> 00:19:11.359
You know, like I mean, basically, so just you know, but if you think about uh the customer service, which I've never found myself to ever be because everybody knows me quite like that.

00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:18.160
But remember when you go to like a department store and you come in and you know, people return underwear, you know, two weeks after, right?

00:19:18.240 --> 00:19:26.000
Or people return a suit that clearly has been worn and probably you know they were out crashing weddings, you know?

00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:27.119
Who knows, right?

00:19:27.279 --> 00:19:29.039
And yet they take you back, right?

00:19:29.200 --> 00:19:42.720
So I mean, look, I mean, I don't think you know, just innately, I don't think I would be to that level, but in my opinion, is look, fine, you know, it's that's still within the reality of if I do this, I create goodwill, right?

00:19:42.880 --> 00:19:48.640
I mean, just by the sheer fact that we are a small company and we're not like a big company, whatever, from us, you know, most of our clients.

00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:51.359
I mean, I have clients that have been with me since 2003, right?

00:19:51.519 --> 00:19:57.039
So, I mean, to me, it's uh if I can build a long term relationship and stay with someone for a long time, it's a lot more fun.

00:19:57.119 --> 00:19:59.759
And I, you know, one of the things the you know, last year.

00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:06.880
That I also did help me pull the trigger here is finding your crowd, you know, finding your your flock, actually, right?

00:20:07.119 --> 00:20:12.559
I like I rather work with less people, but people that I've sort of I'm in the same mind of than anything else, right?

00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:14.240
So if you value me, fine.

00:20:14.319 --> 00:20:15.519
I mean, I'll go the extra mile.

00:20:15.599 --> 00:20:15.920
You're right.

00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:20.000
Theoretically, that is somewhat of an um unfair request, right?

00:20:20.079 --> 00:20:22.640
Because exactly you should have known you need Windows, right?

00:20:22.880 --> 00:20:30.960
You know, I mean, I think the problem is uh it was funny because I mean I used to live and I'm back in your city, but I mean I used to live upstate, right?

00:20:31.039 --> 00:20:36.240
So once I got a house, you know, I got the taste of you know trying to fix things or whatever.

00:20:36.319 --> 00:20:42.960
So remember one time I was trying to go away from my from the contractor ahead of the time, and I was kind of like having all sorts of problems.

00:20:43.039 --> 00:20:46.000
So I'm I'm bitching a moment to one of my clients, right?

00:20:46.160 --> 00:20:48.640
So like I'm just commenting, complaining about it.

00:20:48.720 --> 00:20:53.200
And when I'm done, the client goes to me and goes, like, well, now you know how we feel about you, you know.

00:20:53.440 --> 00:20:57.119
So they have you know, they have their own perspective on this.

00:20:57.200 --> 00:21:04.240
Because I mean the argument is look, I mean, do you I I think what I've seen happen in the market, it's also the other way around, right?

00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:14.400
Um, some part, you know, some people uh you know essentially will just say if you want a room without windows, that's what we'll do for you without trying to convince you that you should have windows, right?

00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:21.839
So once you deliver that, I mean, I think the customer is also in the right to say, Well, you should have told me that I needed Windows, right?

00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:30.079
You know, or like houses with electricity, but they don't have you know the whatever turn on, turn off, you know, where the switches, right?

00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:32.559
You know, because you didn't put them in a spec, right?

00:21:32.640 --> 00:21:35.119
That is that attitude that sometimes the customer encounters.

00:21:35.279 --> 00:21:37.440
So I say split the difference, right?

00:21:37.519 --> 00:21:46.400
So I mean, if they you know, uh if unless they're you know extreme in the request, that's why I said to me the tent to castle is the big thing, or tend to house for that matter, right?

00:21:46.480 --> 00:21:48.559
But I mean, like if you want extra, you know what?

00:21:48.640 --> 00:21:51.920
Uh one, I feel building relationship in the long run.

00:21:52.240 --> 00:22:01.200
I mean, I think yes, I I listened to a couple of you, you know, last and yesterday, including the one with Rory about like you know AI and everything else, like you know, what is that gonna do?

00:22:01.359 --> 00:22:05.920
So code becoming so commoditized at the end of the day, that part is pretty easy, right?

00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:13.119
You know, so at the end of the day, look, I mean, it's we try to get you as long as you stay in business and you're successful, we are gonna be successful, right?

00:22:13.200 --> 00:22:15.119
So I mean that's kind of my philosophy in that case.

00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:20.480
I think I think I think uh the the service industry is certainly a change.

00:22:20.640 --> 00:22:28.480
I mean, if you look at service delivery in many areas, you always have that kind of a standard, kind of a fixed standard implementation, right?

00:22:28.559 --> 00:22:34.799
So you have standard, you know, premium or whatever, and then you may have enterprise where it's much more complex.

00:22:34.960 --> 00:22:39.200
Maybe they're building a larger home, a lot of like options they want to add.

00:22:39.519 --> 00:22:43.039
And so those are maybe become like, hey, it's a kind of a time material.

00:22:43.200 --> 00:22:55.680
But you're right, I think uh there's a a fit for implementation that are fixed, especially for SMBs where they may have a very set um the budget that they put aside.

00:22:56.160 --> 00:23:10.079
So I think a lot of people forget about that, where it's a lot easier for small and medium-sized businesses where hey, look, I'm a I'm a I'm a growing business and I have this much money that I've put aside, you know, and but I want to implement, I want to grow.

00:23:10.720 --> 00:23:13.200
Here's what you know, what can I get out of this one?

00:23:13.440 --> 00:23:14.799
And sometimes that's all they need.

00:23:14.880 --> 00:23:18.559
They just need a good starting point and then maybe improve down the road.

00:23:18.640 --> 00:23:22.559
And if as you as we all know, business central always improves.

00:23:22.640 --> 00:23:26.400
So they're going to benefit a lot of the new features are coming.

00:23:26.799 --> 00:23:31.440
And um so I think there's a definitely a good fit for fixed implementation.

00:23:31.680 --> 00:23:33.680
So that's a need.

00:23:34.160 --> 00:23:37.599
Well, you hit on another key point with that is the relationships.

00:23:38.160 --> 00:23:42.720
And I'm on the the again, it's something that I've been talking about even more so.

00:23:42.799 --> 00:23:45.359
Again, you said software is becoming commoditized.

00:23:45.599 --> 00:23:50.079
And well, geez, if we want to jump into that, we can as well, but I want to talk about the subscription point.

00:23:51.359 --> 00:23:52.559
Relationships are going to be important.

00:23:52.640 --> 00:23:55.839
Unless you had like I like what you had said, you had two key points to me that I heard.

00:23:56.000 --> 00:24:00.160
One, have strong relationships, and two, uh, pick who you work with.

00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:06.559
Uh just like you you you interview candidates uh for positions, it it goes both ways.

00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:12.000
If if uh a customer wants you to do work for them, you should also make sure it's the type of customer that you want to work with.

00:24:12.240 --> 00:24:23.440
I'll tell you, over the years that I've worked, we've had customers in in some of the places that I've worked, I've worked with customers that we had to tell them we didn't want them to be customers anymore because they were just not easy to work with.

00:24:23.680 --> 00:24:24.960
It goes on both sides, right?

00:24:25.039 --> 00:24:31.279
Not just because you're getting money for it, but you also have the stress, the anxiety, and you know, the difficulties of working.

00:24:31.440 --> 00:24:34.319
Not to say that you know there aren't challenging problems that need to be solved.

00:24:34.400 --> 00:24:41.519
It's are you working together and partnering for the end result of a successful implementation, right?

00:24:41.680 --> 00:24:44.480
Making sure that uh you're satisfied with what you deliver.

00:24:44.640 --> 00:24:48.240
That's extremely important, and the the whomever's receiving is important.

00:24:48.400 --> 00:25:07.359
So I I like your approach of finding, like you said, finding your flock, which is uh finding the right fit because there's so many people out there, there's so many different things out there that you can waste your time in negative energy and you're not going anywhere and suiting anybody, and then you have hostility, or you can build those strong relationships, like you said.

00:25:07.599 --> 00:25:09.519
I call it like don't nickel and dime, right?

00:25:09.680 --> 00:25:19.680
You you like you could try to get as much money as you can today, but if you have a long relationship, you could have uh a strong relationship where you both benefit from that relationship, right?

00:25:20.000 --> 00:25:30.640
Again, if someone's paying you to do something for their benefit, they're not doing it just to give you money, and then you want them to pay you for the services so that you can, you know, you have the benefit of the income as well.

00:25:30.799 --> 00:25:40.559
So I think that's extremely important is to identify who you want to uh do things with in your life as well as value that relationship.

00:25:40.720 --> 00:25:47.119
Um go ahead I sorry, just a quick point.

00:25:47.200 --> 00:25:50.480
Uh people don't realize there's a cost of acquisition of relationship.

00:25:51.039 --> 00:26:00.400
So you you know building the relationship early on is very, very important to me and identifying who is the the right partner because yeah, I mean, in both sides, by the way.

00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:05.119
So if you're ever as a customer, as an end user, finding a new partner is very, very difficult.

00:26:05.200 --> 00:26:06.480
It's like starting all over, right?

00:26:06.559 --> 00:26:08.480
And so same thing with a new client.

00:26:08.799 --> 00:26:12.559
Um acquiring a client takes a long time to build that relationship.

00:26:13.039 --> 00:26:17.200
So yes, a relationship is very, very important in this space, especially.

00:26:20.400 --> 00:26:28.559
So the other thing you have is you have that uh a subscription billing model, which I do want to get back to software being commoditized because I think it'd be great to speak with you with that.

00:26:28.640 --> 00:26:35.759
But the subscription scripts subscription model is not the fixed bid model, a fixed price model, whatever someone may talk about.

00:26:35.920 --> 00:26:37.759
Now they pay a monthly service.

00:26:38.079 --> 00:26:44.160
Someone could pay you a monthly service for services, uh, and under that model, how does that work?

00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:53.440
Yes, I think Chris kind of talked about like he said, I mean, then it doesn't necessarily need to be enterprise, but I mean, if the things are not easily defined, or you know you have a lot of them, right?

00:26:53.599 --> 00:26:56.799
Then I mean it's gonna be a lot more complicated to figure it out.

00:26:56.880 --> 00:27:10.559
And I mean, sometimes, yeah, I mean, look, I mean, if you're a distribution company, unless you have some weird thing, I think I I'm I today I'm willing, I'm willing to take a chance and throw at you a particular budget and even stick to it because I kind of know what it's gonna be.

00:27:10.640 --> 00:27:15.839
But sometimes some things are more complex, sometimes it takes longer and you don't necessarily know everything.

00:27:16.079 --> 00:27:22.000
And I this actually fits quite well, especially on the power BI side, where we like to do like really small increments, right?

00:27:22.079 --> 00:27:25.279
Because the problem is I can think I understand what the reports are.

00:27:25.359 --> 00:27:27.359
You I'm sure you think you understand what I told you.

00:27:27.440 --> 00:27:33.119
I'm gonna do the reports, but when I come to you, you're gonna go, oh, this is this is not what I wanted.

00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:37.200
And part of the Power BI is more a power BI again, analogy.

00:27:37.279 --> 00:27:39.920
I always use analogy when I when I talk about Power BI projects.

00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:44.559
It is the data model, is the foundation and the plumbing, right?

00:27:45.200 --> 00:27:49.440
Then you have dimension measures, and that's your rooms, your bathrooms, your windows, whatever.

00:27:49.599 --> 00:27:52.640
And then the actual report is basically the interior design.

00:27:52.880 --> 00:27:58.720
And I think I would never build a house because I have the patience to sort of think through those things.

00:27:58.960 --> 00:28:14.160
But what color are the cartas, what color are gonna be the paint on the walls, what marble do you want in the kitchen, what uh you know, like those things everybody, you know, even in the same, you know, in the same family, you know, you you know, the wife and you could be arguing and you can never come to a conclusion, right?

00:28:14.319 --> 00:28:20.799
So that's why they we go in small increments, and therefore then it makes sense to just keep going, knowing that we're working together, right?

00:28:20.960 --> 00:28:31.839
So with the subscription, theoretically, I guess originally I felt it would be I mean, I might back up from that thing just simply because maybe it just sounds too good to be true, but it says unlimited development, right?

00:28:31.920 --> 00:28:34.720
Essentially, call it power BI or business central, right?

00:28:34.880 --> 00:28:45.119
Um, now obviously, like everything else, it can't be a hundred percent unlimited since since basically, you know, like at the end of the day, then you know I would be losing my shirt, you know.

00:28:45.359 --> 00:28:48.480
Um the the only rule, and everybody's different.

00:28:48.559 --> 00:28:52.319
My rule, because this is where you have to put at least a rule, a limitation, right?

00:28:52.480 --> 00:28:58.000
So the only rule is you can give us as many tasks as you want, but we only work on one task at a time, right?

00:28:58.079 --> 00:28:58.880
So there's two parts.

00:28:59.039 --> 00:29:00.000
What is it that you're doing?

00:29:00.079 --> 00:29:01.920
So you we only work on one task at a time.

00:29:02.079 --> 00:29:10.319
I think David Singleton was saying that he says his rule is I only have one person from the car line that I talk to, they're supposed to tell me what it is.

00:29:10.400 --> 00:29:14.960
The idea being that you kind of slow down, it'll be the funnel of stuff that comes to you, you know.

00:29:15.279 --> 00:29:19.440
And the other part to consider, which I mean I would expect clients to think about, is okay, fine.

00:29:19.519 --> 00:29:21.680
So now we're doing one task at a time.

00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:29.839
The if you want to be cynical, obviously the question is, well, you then it sounds like you have an incentive to work really slow so you can make more money, right?

00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:38.079
Um, and I mean, this is where the answer to the client is basically, well, you know, we're gonna treat you like all of our clients.

00:29:38.160 --> 00:29:41.680
I mean, I work informally with most of my clients this way.

00:29:41.759 --> 00:29:51.200
I don't give estimates, they just tell me what to do, and I do it, and I know with my each client when is something super important, when something can wait, and generally we just put them into the queue.

00:29:51.279 --> 00:29:54.000
And obviously, sometimes he jumps if there is something and whatever.

00:29:54.160 --> 00:30:01.519
So we will get you, you know, going at a what we think it's a good sort of customer service delivery level, right?

00:30:01.759 --> 00:30:07.359
Um, if you wanted to, if you wanted to sort of um, I don't know, define that further.

00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:22.319
For instance, there is a guy on the CRM side, the way he's he's put his, which was actually, you know, I've influenced myself a lot from him, and I spent a lot of time talking to him about this stuff, but um he's got like this sort of like economy, premium, and first class, right?

00:30:22.400 --> 00:30:28.480
So economy, he says, um, he says basically the resources working on a project are shared with six other clients.

00:30:28.640 --> 00:30:39.519
Not sure if that means including you, whatever, but you know, then uh premium is like three other clients, and um, you know, basically first class it was like just you get your own team, right?

00:30:39.839 --> 00:30:44.960
I mean, to me, that sounds a little bit more defined, but in the same time, what does that really mean, right?

00:30:45.039 --> 00:30:52.960
Because you you could be sharing with one other client, and if the other client has, you know, a hundred projects and you only have one, the question is how does that work, right?

00:30:53.200 --> 00:30:58.559
So, I mean, that doesn't mean this the model is wrong, it just means it really doesn't matter what the definition is.

00:30:58.640 --> 00:31:03.039
I mean, to me, the idea is what we offer is look, you have one month to try, right?

00:31:03.200 --> 00:31:13.440
And then if you don't like, you know, I mean, technically, the proper way to do this is it would be to say you have to come in for a year or three years, because there are ups and downs for for both sides, right?

00:31:13.519 --> 00:31:16.960
That's that's literally the um sort of retainer with lawyers, right?

00:31:17.039 --> 00:31:21.519
I mean, not nothing that I'm doing here, it's like something that I came up with and doesn't really exist.

00:31:22.000 --> 00:31:25.920
No, it doesn't but just to go back, you hit one key thing on that.

00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:28.880
I'd like to just jump in and you hit on the relationship.

00:31:28.960 --> 00:31:33.839
You said with most of your clients that you work with, you have an understanding of it.

00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:52.559
And that see, this is where I keep coming into the relationship because as you had mentioned, is you work with people long enough, you have faith that they're going to deliver, as also and they have faith that they understand what's critical, because it's very difficult to gauge what's an emergency because everything's an emergency to the person who has the problem, right?

00:31:53.119 --> 00:32:06.000
It really is, and it could be something like my computer's unplugged from the wall and I can't turn it on, and it's an emergency, it's an emergency, it's an emergency to you know, my entire system's not working because the internet outage or something.

00:32:06.319 --> 00:32:22.960
You know, there's different levels of uh of uh priority, I guess you could say, and having a relationship where you understand those levels and how to manage that to at least have so that they know that you listen to them and you hear them and you work with them and they know that you always deliver is important uh with that.

00:32:23.039 --> 00:32:25.279
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to jump in, but I'm on this relationship.

00:32:25.599 --> 00:32:38.400
No, no, it's a valid, it's a valid thing, and it's funny enough because you know I gave you that example with when I was trying to go away from my contractor that I had at the time, it wasn't trying to go trying to supplant him because there was this thing where I would ask for something that I just wanted it done quickly, right?

00:32:38.480 --> 00:32:42.799
And I mean my contractor has a slightly different opinion of uh you know time, right?

00:32:42.880 --> 00:32:59.359
I mean, like for him, if he says gonna be there in an hour or two, but sometime today, it's not quite time warner, you know, cable, but uh basically, you know, and sometimes I could see how he would literally literally wait until we put the whole bunch of things together, like we had multiple needs, and then he would come in and do them then.

00:32:59.599 --> 00:33:06.720
So, first of all, you know, that it's funny because I mean again, I'm leaving the same thing on the personal side, and it's a very interesting thing to compare with the house and with the personal stuff.

00:33:06.880 --> 00:33:11.279
So, one, you know, like at the end of the day, basically I tried to go to other people, right?

00:33:11.440 --> 00:33:17.599
And I mean, I remember hiring this guy hourly, and I mean like$80,$90 to literally do like one thing.

00:33:17.759 --> 00:33:23.359
I wanted him to replace the oil in the sort of lamps that were out in the garden, like a van in a bathroom.

00:33:23.440 --> 00:33:35.359
He studied half a day, he took the containers and he never showed up ever again, with the exception of two months later asking for the half a day of work money back, money for that half a day of work that he did, even though he never even brought back the containers, right?

00:33:35.599 --> 00:33:39.759
So am I half joke, half serious whenever clients complain about my services?

00:33:39.839 --> 00:33:42.480
I would be like, Look, man, you should see the other guys, you know.

00:33:42.640 --> 00:33:43.920
So honestly, it's true.

00:33:44.400 --> 00:33:52.240
It's absolutely what you just said is absolutely true, and it's it's it's pretty poor that people work this way.

00:33:52.400 --> 00:33:55.759
And it's every industry where people say they'll do something.

00:33:55.920 --> 00:34:05.119
I I could tell you some personal stories, and it's like you said, they show up, they do minimal, they never come back, and you're just kind of stuck there.

00:34:05.200 --> 00:34:10.000
It's very hard to find what and it's to say$18 for what change, you know.

00:34:10.079 --> 00:34:14.480
But here's the thing I don't necessarily like this, I'm not here denigrating that guy because you know we don't know.

00:34:14.559 --> 00:34:15.920
Look, maybe you know, who knows?

00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:16.960
Maybe he had something personal.

00:34:17.280 --> 00:34:23.119
I mean, I think where I can denigrate him is when he one asks for the money two months later, two doesn't really apologize.

00:34:23.199 --> 00:34:24.079
Those are problems, right?

00:34:24.159 --> 00:34:26.719
But I think that's communication in that key, right?

00:34:26.800 --> 00:34:29.840
People fail to realize the importance of communication.

00:34:30.079 --> 00:34:31.119
Issues do occur.

00:34:31.280 --> 00:34:32.960
And listen, we all have them.

00:34:33.199 --> 00:34:34.880
All you have to all you have to say.

00:34:34.960 --> 00:34:47.679
I hate it when people say all you have to do is what's important to do in that situation is say, hey, I know I said I'd fill your uh oil and your lanterns, I took the containers, I ran into a personal issue, I won't be able to get back to you until two months.

00:34:48.159 --> 00:34:59.920
At least it sets the expectation and then it gives you the opportunity to have sort of closure on it that you know that he's not coming back for two months, or you can find someone else in the meantime as well, if you're not satisfied with that level.

00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:08.239
And I think that again, it's it's this industry is just like any other service industry, and we we fail to realize that.

00:35:08.320 --> 00:35:11.679
I mean, even if you're selling products in a sense, it's almost the same way.

00:35:11.840 --> 00:35:15.840
You you have services that you're delivering for those products or those products or those services.

00:35:15.920 --> 00:35:19.199
So um but it's yeah, it's fine.

00:35:19.280 --> 00:35:21.519
So but to close on the contract, you see, here's the thing.

00:35:21.679 --> 00:35:22.880
Eventually I give up, right?

00:35:22.960 --> 00:35:23.679
But here's the thing.

00:35:23.840 --> 00:35:28.559
Yes, uh it was frustrating, if nothing else, because of the you know, but it's frustrating sometimes to wait.

00:35:28.639 --> 00:35:30.960
But here's where the key thing is, right?

00:35:31.199 --> 00:35:33.199
He also knew why it was important.

00:35:33.360 --> 00:35:44.719
Look, I mean, on July 4th, like we had guests over one particular year when I had a house upstate, and uh septic time backed into the you know, um backed into the basement, right?

00:35:44.800 --> 00:35:46.000
And it took us a while to figure out.

00:35:46.400 --> 00:35:53.519
I mean, that experience, first of all, really I don't know if we're allowed to say this on a podcast, but ruined the worst shit for me because you know you can say whatever you want.

00:35:53.679 --> 00:36:02.960
Yeah, so I mean it's like you know, you know when you say they should actually buy you had I had water, what they call it brown water, call it that, all over the basement, right?

00:36:03.039 --> 00:36:08.079
And I mean I had this, I called this company in the middle of the night, and they really screwed up everything, made things even worse.

00:36:08.239 --> 00:36:13.360
But I mean, the thing is he came in the next day to help me find like the septic tank to unplug it, whatever.

00:36:13.440 --> 00:36:16.559
So even though it was weekend, it was like the weekend of July 4th, whatever.

00:36:16.639 --> 00:36:27.280
So the point is, you know, and it's funny because you're talking about even like a computer being unplugged, like there's a Joe, there's a writing job between us about the GFI, which look, I don't know nothing about like you know, doing stuff around the house.

00:36:27.440 --> 00:36:30.960
So that's like the little red button on the you know power strip, whatever.

00:36:31.039 --> 00:36:34.880
I didn't know existed until he pointed out to me once because something wasn't working.

00:36:34.960 --> 00:36:36.000
So, but that's the thing.

00:36:36.159 --> 00:36:40.960
I know that when it's a truly you know system down thing, right?

00:36:41.039 --> 00:36:42.400
He shows up, right?

00:36:42.639 --> 00:36:51.280
And he showed up despite the fact that was July 4th, despite the fact that his people were not working, he came in and sat there and we dug for like two hours until we found what the septic tank was.

00:36:51.360 --> 00:36:55.199
And I mean, he literally sort of you know got himself dirty to do this, right?

00:36:55.360 --> 00:36:57.599
So I mean, I think this is kind of our promise.

00:36:57.679 --> 00:36:59.599
This is a promise that we were to the client, you know.

00:36:59.679 --> 00:37:06.400
They have our cell phone, they have, you know, then they you know they know how to reach to us if there's a true problem, and also we can kind of recognize.

00:37:06.480 --> 00:37:13.280
But I mean, I think this is where the flock concept comes in because you need a person that understands, because eventually I kind of settle myself into this thing.

00:37:13.360 --> 00:37:21.280
I know that sometimes he's not gonna jump on it, and I also know myself that yes, I would like it fast, but is I would like it, right?

00:37:21.440 --> 00:37:25.280
You know, and again, if he didn't have anything else to do, or if he had the space, he would actually do it.

00:37:25.360 --> 00:37:26.639
It wasn't just like generally.

00:37:26.960 --> 00:37:31.519
I know the reason he would not do some of the stuff is because he was already super busy with other people, right?

00:37:31.760 --> 00:37:35.599
And as he happens, he basically his entire career apparently is like that development.

00:37:35.679 --> 00:37:38.159
He basically had again reputation.

00:37:38.480 --> 00:37:42.239
One house, as he got sold, everybody recommended him to the next person.

00:37:42.320 --> 00:37:43.519
That's how I got him, right?

00:37:43.679 --> 00:37:48.719
So, like, literally, the guy is, I don't know, probably around my age, like close to 40, something, 50, right?

00:37:48.880 --> 00:38:00.320
And I mean, like essentially he that his entire career since was like 16, 18 when he started this, he's been mostly in that particular development and just built relationships with everybody there, known the owners and everything else, right?

00:38:00.400 --> 00:38:05.039
So, I mean, that's kind of you know, that's the problem with this is everything that we just said right now.

00:38:05.119 --> 00:38:11.920
How do I put this in a marketing page on you know, on my subscription service to say what is the level of service?

00:38:12.079 --> 00:38:18.239
It's everything I just said right now, but everybody keeps telling me, like, when you have a website, put like you know, two phrases.

00:38:18.480 --> 00:38:27.199
So, this is why technique for us is look, you get one month, if you don't like it, you can cancel afterwards, or you know, we say you can always start with a fixed price project with us, right?

00:38:27.360 --> 00:38:32.000
Do one fixed price project, see how it goes, and then you can go into the subscription thing, right?

00:38:32.159 --> 00:38:35.440
And I think again, going back to relationship, going back to knowing.

00:38:35.599 --> 00:38:38.480
I mean, Chris, a good point about the custom acquisition, right?

00:38:39.119 --> 00:38:48.000
You with a lot of our clients right now, they send us an email, and we already know between the development team, between me and everybody, we already know the history.

00:38:48.159 --> 00:38:50.159
They don't need to sit there and explain, right?

00:38:50.239 --> 00:38:52.480
Imagine the way the way you have with the new company.

00:38:52.559 --> 00:38:58.800
You have to explain a lot of the background, and more importantly, you you might not even think of all the things that need to be considered.

00:38:58.880 --> 00:39:00.480
Hey, this might might impact other things.

00:39:00.559 --> 00:39:03.119
If I already know everything else you have in the house, right?

00:39:03.280 --> 00:39:09.119
I mean, like, hey, you know, let's go spray the roof for whatever, you know, to get mass off.

00:39:09.199 --> 00:39:14.079
But if you have solar panels, that makes a huge difference in how you approach the whole thing, right?

00:39:14.239 --> 00:39:21.920
Um, so like, I mean, but if you don't know, you could have a kid that just goes and starts spraying because you said you want to spray it for, you know, whatever.

00:39:22.079 --> 00:39:26.800
So the more you go, the more there's a value in that in that relationship, right?

00:39:26.960 --> 00:39:34.960
Then well, that's where you become a consultant uh uh versus just labor because partner, partner.

00:39:35.440 --> 00:39:37.440
Well, that's well, can yes, partner, excuse me.

00:39:37.519 --> 00:39:42.159
But uh I use the consultant in the sense of you talk with them about what they want.

00:39:42.239 --> 00:39:44.400
Or you again, the partner is the better word, thank you.

00:39:44.639 --> 00:39:46.239
It's and I use that all the time.

00:39:46.400 --> 00:39:56.079
It's a a partner should be a partner with you to make sure that your business is successful and they don't just do what you want per se, they talk with you about what you are looking for.

00:39:56.239 --> 00:39:59.760
Because again, it's I could go into the doctor because I have Soram and say, hey.

00:40:00.079 --> 00:40:01.599
My arm's broken, put a cast on it.

00:40:01.679 --> 00:40:08.800
Or do I want the doctor to take the time to talk to me about my pain, to see what's going on, to see actually my problem is I have pain and I want it to stop.

00:40:09.840 --> 00:40:16.960
If you walk in telling them how to solve the problem, then you may not really find the root cause of the problem and you can make things worse.

00:40:17.119 --> 00:40:19.199
So having somebody who partners with you is good.

00:40:19.360 --> 00:40:25.599
So so the whole billable hour is dead means that you're not getting into that.

00:40:25.760 --> 00:40:29.679
We're going to give you an estimate and then whatever it takes, it takes.

00:40:29.840 --> 00:40:30.079
Right.

00:40:30.159 --> 00:40:34.320
So it's it's not that open-ended time and materials type thing.

00:40:34.400 --> 00:40:45.360
And I know a lot of people get hesitant of it, but even more so now because even outside of our industry, as you could call it, a lot of people don't charge by the hour anymore either.

00:40:45.519 --> 00:40:50.400
So it's it's you know, why would I pay for the hour for software when I'm not paying for the hour for anything else?

00:40:50.480 --> 00:40:54.079
So you can offer a fixed project within reason, right?

00:40:54.159 --> 00:41:03.360
So you said you do the fixed project for uh a certain amount of dollars based upon the task, and then you have remediation for that task for 30 days afterwards.

00:41:03.760 --> 00:41:06.400
And that's all they'd have to pay for.

00:41:06.639 --> 00:41:08.559
For the subscription, I'm just trying to re bring it back in.

00:41:08.639 --> 00:41:13.599
So then for the subscription portion of it, you pay a monthly fee, you get 30 days free.

00:41:13.679 --> 00:41:18.480
Now, when you get into the monthly after the monthly fee, do you have a contract for a certain period of time or is it just months?

00:41:18.639 --> 00:41:19.360
No, no, no, that's what I'm saying.

00:41:19.440 --> 00:41:22.719
No, so it's not like no, it don't you don't get a month for month free.

00:41:22.800 --> 00:41:24.480
You just basically beat one month a month.

00:41:24.639 --> 00:41:25.760
You can cancel anytime.

00:41:25.920 --> 00:41:31.840
I mean, you could basically pause it at any time because there's also the question, you know, what if I don't have anything right now, right?

00:41:32.000 --> 00:41:36.559
You know, so I mean if you want to pause it mid-month and then just revive it later on.

00:41:36.639 --> 00:41:38.719
But I mean, we're not locking anybody in.

00:41:38.800 --> 00:41:41.440
I mean, uh, presumably at some point, assuming that it takes off.

00:41:41.519 --> 00:41:43.760
I mean, we can always do like discounts if you want to commit.

00:41:43.840 --> 00:41:48.320
But I mean, generally, the idea is, you know, if you want to be here, you want to be here.

00:41:48.400 --> 00:41:52.800
If you don't want to be here, you know, there's no point forcing you just because, you know.

00:41:53.280 --> 00:41:58.079
With but just with that, uh, you said there's unlimited development for Power BI and Business Essential.

00:41:58.159 --> 00:41:58.880
Is it just development?

00:41:58.960 --> 00:42:02.480
Does it include training and other types of services?

00:42:02.800 --> 00:42:04.719
I mean, it's a good, it's a good question.

00:42:04.960 --> 00:42:08.239
I think for now, I mean, for now, for us, it's just development, right?

00:42:08.320 --> 00:42:09.280
I mean, essentially.

00:42:09.440 --> 00:42:14.079
Um, we do, you know, we do have a separate thing for like which I don't know which category comes in.

00:42:14.159 --> 00:42:20.079
And I literally just started a project right now, and I did this originally with the Valve's jewelry thing.

00:42:20.159 --> 00:42:21.920
Uh, I did the project for him that way.

00:42:22.159 --> 00:42:23.599
Fixed price implementation.

00:42:23.760 --> 00:42:26.159
Budget is let's say$120,000.

00:42:26.559 --> 00:42:28.320
You agree you're doing it in 12 months.

00:42:28.400 --> 00:42:30.800
We charge you basically 220 divided by 12.

00:42:30.880 --> 00:42:33.599
I just made it for the ease of math,$10,000 a month.

00:42:33.679 --> 00:42:36.159
We bill it$10,000 a month, so there's no timesheets.

00:42:36.400 --> 00:42:39.440
You know, we agree at the beginning what it cut what it goes into it.

00:42:39.519 --> 00:42:45.360
Um, and then basically we don't charge, and then whether there's meetings, whether there's everything, there's an assumption that we're gonna train.

00:42:45.519 --> 00:42:57.599
I mean, you you say you're gonna train the trainer, we you know, you put a limit like data conversion to of them, but you don't go and say they better be like this, or otherwise we're gonna charge you every hour for every little thing that we change or whatever stuff like that, right?

00:42:57.760 --> 00:42:59.840
So, I mean, there is kind of that option as well.

00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:07.760
In the ins it's in the middle, and I'm not sure if that's subscription, because it is subscription with a predefined term that includes pretty much a task, right?

00:43:07.840 --> 00:43:10.079
That's so at the end of the day, it is kind of a subscription.

00:43:10.239 --> 00:43:23.920
But for the regular subscription, it's just development because I mean training, uh, you know, then it's a lot harder to limit that, and also that means the the most costly is the human interface, right?

00:43:24.000 --> 00:43:32.480
So I mean if I have to spend 40 hours a day training, obviously in that case I can't see it making you know, I can't see making it sort of profitable in any way.

00:43:32.719 --> 00:43:42.000
Until I get because I heard in the Rory thing, until I get an avatar the way you want to have your Brad avatar, and then uh you know, I can have them do the training, maybe.

00:43:42.079 --> 00:43:43.599
You know, in that case, fair enough.

00:43:43.760 --> 00:43:44.800
We can do that, you know.

00:43:45.119 --> 00:43:46.159
They're coming.

00:43:46.559 --> 00:43:47.199
I know, I know.

00:43:47.519 --> 00:43:48.639
Chris, you were gonna say something?

00:43:48.719 --> 00:43:49.039
I don't know.

00:43:49.360 --> 00:43:53.840
Yeah, I just want to from it, but no, no, I uh it's still within the same subject.

00:43:54.239 --> 00:44:05.360
I think I I think uh people are realizing that um you know we talked about little uh other different generation um you know coming into this space and we've talked about this several times.

00:44:05.519 --> 00:44:15.599
And one thing I wanted to point out that a lot of times we we tend to mirror what we do or per in a personal level um into the business space.

00:44:15.920 --> 00:44:21.519
Um so you talked about subscription and fix fix a bid or fix uh fix that fix a bid implementation.

00:44:22.000 --> 00:44:26.239
Those are common things that people like us expect on a day-to-day life.

00:44:26.719 --> 00:44:36.400
So if you look at this subscription base, it's a fantastic idea because if you look at newer generations coming into the workshop decision makers, they're used to that.

00:44:36.880 --> 00:44:42.800
Look what we do in a day-to-day, everything that we do is a subscription base, and we know what we expect on a monthly basis.

00:44:43.280 --> 00:44:46.320
Here's what I get on a monthly basis and a subscription.

00:44:46.719 --> 00:44:50.239
And it's up to you to get the most out of it, right?

00:44:50.960 --> 00:44:53.280
It's easier for everybody as well.

00:44:53.440 --> 00:44:55.679
Like I you had mentioned, you there's no timesheet.

00:44:56.159 --> 00:45:06.880
It's a lot of work to have to do a timesheet on a monthly basis or on a weekly basis where you have a subscription, it's much easier for both parties to say, hey, here's what I want to accomplish.

00:45:07.599 --> 00:45:12.559
What can we do to get as much as we can and and and um and implement it?

00:45:12.960 --> 00:45:16.159
So I think that's what you're doing, Christians, is is amazing.

00:45:16.239 --> 00:45:22.000
And I think we I think a lot of small, medium-sized businesses would essentially prefer now.

00:45:22.079 --> 00:45:22.880
It's not for everybody.

00:45:23.679 --> 00:45:34.000
Absolutely, it's not for everybody, but there's a lot of them out there that like, hey, this is easier for me to um budget on a monthly basis or even budget for the entire project in itself.

00:45:34.159 --> 00:45:39.679
So I having an option is is a great option for a lot of the SMBs out there.

00:45:41.360 --> 00:45:48.559
And what you hit on that, Chris, was really good is you don't focus on the time, you focus on the task.

00:45:49.119 --> 00:45:49.360
Yes.

00:45:50.559 --> 00:45:52.559
That's the key to me, and and that's what I'm saying.

00:45:52.639 --> 00:45:55.920
It's you're focusing on working together to solve the problem.

00:45:56.159 --> 00:46:00.559
You're not worrying about, oh, it took two hours to do this, it took three hours to do that.

00:46:01.119 --> 00:46:07.840
And oftentimes, and we've all been doing this, people will pay what they need to pay for something that they need to get done.

00:46:08.159 --> 00:46:09.199
There's a value to them.

00:46:09.360 --> 00:46:11.760
What is that value to me to have that done?

00:46:11.920 --> 00:46:12.960
And I'll pay for it.

00:46:13.039 --> 00:46:17.679
It's not a matter of if it takes you, oh, it's three hours, it's gonna be this and that.

00:46:17.840 --> 00:46:20.079
It's I just need this task done, right?

00:46:20.159 --> 00:46:21.199
I'm not saying it's an emergency.

00:46:21.280 --> 00:46:26.159
I'm just saying you need something done to uh, as Chris as you had mentioned, that in your home life, right?

00:46:26.239 --> 00:46:27.039
We have subscriptions.

00:46:27.119 --> 00:46:31.440
We don't, you know, uh you pay a subscription fee for your internet monthly fee.

00:46:32.480 --> 00:46:35.199
You can use a terabyte or you can use 500 gigabytes.

00:46:35.599 --> 00:46:38.320
You don't sit there and worry about did I use not anymore.

00:46:38.400 --> 00:46:43.119
I mean, early on in the days, that's what we used to do back when we were kids, when the internet was invented.

00:46:43.440 --> 00:46:54.559
But it I like the fact that you focus on solving a problem or completing a task versus all of the overhead around that task.

00:46:55.039 --> 00:46:56.159
And I and I like that.

00:46:56.400 --> 00:46:57.840
One question with a subscription.

00:46:58.159 --> 00:46:58.960
Oh, okay, Chris.

00:46:59.199 --> 00:47:02.639
No, I'm sorry, it's uh it's it's also the value that you get out of it, right?

00:47:02.719 --> 00:47:08.719
Because like uh it's uh value is subjective to you know but for the dollar that you're paying.

00:47:08.880 --> 00:47:12.800
Um, you know, we're talking about house houses built or even maintenance in your house.

00:47:13.039 --> 00:47:16.880
You know, I had a guy come out here and and we talked about this in the last episode.

00:47:17.039 --> 00:47:21.039
I have a boiler room and you know, I I need someone to do a maintenance.

00:47:21.519 --> 00:47:30.239
I have I know not no and I don't know anything about boiler rooms, but the value is making sure that my house is heating properly during the winter time.

00:47:30.960 --> 00:47:32.159
What am I willing to pay?

00:47:32.639 --> 00:47:36.400
The guy came out and you know, gave you know, I think I paid a guy$350.

00:47:36.960 --> 00:47:38.320
I don't know how long he spent here.

00:47:38.639 --> 00:47:52.239
I know he was out there working on something, but knowing the fact that it's going to do it's going to do exactly what I needed to do, and the value of that is keeping my house warm and my family uh warm during wintertime.

00:47:52.639 --> 00:47:54.480
So the dollar didn't matter at that point.

00:47:54.639 --> 00:47:56.400
It's the result that I was expecting.

00:47:56.559 --> 00:47:58.800
So just to kind of finish it off what you were saying, Brad.

00:47:59.760 --> 00:48:10.639
The the subscription billing, and this is what I'm thinking of, is is there a different structure uh based upon the organization size?

00:48:11.440 --> 00:48:14.800
It goes with what you uh you know, I was thinking about when Chris was talking about the SMBs, right?

00:48:15.119 --> 00:48:20.960
I could be a one-user system that I need your services, and it will fluctuate, as you had mentioned.

00:48:21.039 --> 00:48:23.119
It's nice to see that you could stop and start that.

00:48:23.280 --> 00:48:30.800
Or I could be a 300-user system where I may have a little bit more that I need uh from you.

00:48:31.039 --> 00:48:39.440
Is it a one subscription fee and then you work on one task at a time, or uh does the subscription vary based upon the organization?

00:48:40.159 --> 00:48:41.760
Um I mean, and we thought about that.

00:48:41.840 --> 00:48:44.400
So here's the thing theoretically, it's really the work, right?

00:48:44.480 --> 00:48:49.199
So I mean, if you if you needed to, so if you need because the problem is the following.

00:48:49.360 --> 00:48:54.559
Look, you could be you could be a one one-man company, or you could be a thousand-man company, right?

00:48:54.719 --> 00:48:59.199
You know, um, if you only have one task at a time, it really doesn't matter, right?

00:48:59.280 --> 00:49:01.440
I mean, it's an artificial sort of differentiation.

00:49:01.679 --> 00:49:05.519
The way in my mind is nothing stops you from buying two subscriptions for me.

00:49:05.599 --> 00:49:20.239
If you want to have two two tasks going at the same time, you can buy either two subscriptions, or you can have a subscription, and if you need something extra or something done faster, exactly know when it's delivered.

00:49:20.320 --> 00:49:21.440
You could do a fixed price.

00:49:21.519 --> 00:49:24.960
The point is you can you can sort of mix and match on the two offerings, right?

00:49:25.039 --> 00:49:32.559
So you can have this, and then you can have a fixed price for one particular project if it's a one-off, or you can do two or three.

00:49:32.639 --> 00:49:43.039
I mean, I don't think I could have absorbed three from a company at a given time because I would have to like scale up on the you know on the resources and everything else, but that is sort of the philosophy behind it.

00:49:43.119 --> 00:49:48.000
You know, if you if you have seven projects going at the same time, buy seven subscriptions.

00:49:48.320 --> 00:49:51.199
Let me talk to you about these agents that can help you.

00:49:52.400 --> 00:49:58.159
And I mean, there is part of it, it's still it's it's look, here's where the the biggest part is gonna be the specing, right?

00:49:58.320 --> 00:50:01.280
The spec of the stuff and figuring out what you put in there and everything.

00:50:01.440 --> 00:50:13.360
So, I mean, to to like for instance, I want to say that as far as as enamored I am with this concept, and I'm very passionate about it, and there's a lot of reasons, not just these, but you know, Chris, you said something about what is the value.

00:50:13.519 --> 00:50:23.280
Really, the the on the internet, there are people I sort of with this starts in me initially, is not it's really based on what is the value to you, right?

00:50:23.360 --> 00:50:32.239
Because essentially, I've had this with clients where there's a mod that I could do in two hours, but the client would not blink at paying five or ten thousand dollars because it's super important to them.

00:50:32.400 --> 00:50:36.239
Then it's something that I slugged away for three days developing, and then they're like, What?

00:50:36.400 --> 00:50:38.639
This thing couldn't be just$200, right?

00:50:38.880 --> 00:50:50.400
So, and again, I was like, Oh my god, look at them how, but I mean, I ended, I understood over time the point, which is one, they don't know the work, but more importantly, if it doesn't have the value, that's what they that's what matters to them, right?

00:50:50.639 --> 00:51:01.920
So the argument that the really ideal model is to be, you know, going back to that keyword, that's why I said partner, based on what is the benefit, what is the ROI for you?

00:51:02.079 --> 00:51:10.159
So here's the thing, and this applies a lot better when you, you know, this probably will apply like better when you introduce the agents and everything else, but really it doesn't matter.

00:51:10.320 --> 00:51:11.840
A tool is a tool.

00:51:12.239 --> 00:51:21.039
If this brings you, you know, I don't know, cost savings of a million dollars a year or extra revenue of a million dollars a year.

00:51:21.199 --> 00:51:23.760
Is it okay if I charge you 10% of it?

00:51:23.840 --> 00:51:28.320
Should be okay if I charge you 10% of that, even if that took me three hours to do it, right?

00:51:28.400 --> 00:51:31.199
That it shouldn't really matter what it took me to do it.

00:51:31.360 --> 00:51:34.880
If I can deliver that to you, that's the argument, right?

00:51:35.039 --> 00:51:39.440
That's really the ultimate holy grail in that in this other world.

00:51:39.679 --> 00:51:42.719
The issue with that one is, I mean, I've seen and I've read some of these things.

00:51:42.800 --> 00:51:47.039
Some people really follow these guys that are that are you know sort of proselytizing this.

00:51:47.119 --> 00:51:50.719
Obviously, the issue there is how do you define ROI on a thing, right?

00:51:50.880 --> 00:51:55.039
You know, it's really hard because to attribute a direct impact to something.

00:51:55.199 --> 00:51:59.679
I mean, in certain scenarios, it's clear-cut, especially when it's a new thing that you're doing a business or whatever.

00:51:59.840 --> 00:52:01.760
But I mean, otherwise it's kind of hard, right?

00:52:01.840 --> 00:52:05.119
But ultimately, that would be sort of the perfect thing, right?

00:52:05.199 --> 00:52:13.199
Because then it's still somewhat arbitrary with a subscription, because it's still based more on, but it still is pay for results, you know, and not uh cost.

00:52:13.440 --> 00:52:15.360
And then the other thing is to the world of partner.

00:52:15.599 --> 00:52:21.360
I mean, I have to say this because, you know, I mean, I've learned more a little bit more about marketing, but it is a reality and it is my mind.

00:52:21.440 --> 00:52:24.239
You know, what do clients what do clients complain about all the time?

00:52:24.400 --> 00:52:31.280
Man, you know, we do projects and they fail a lot of times, and there's so much risk, and then blah blah blah, and this and this, right?

00:52:31.679 --> 00:52:37.039
The point with this is also the goal of doing this is to take risk away from the client.

00:52:37.199 --> 00:52:39.679
You're not just the fact that you're saving money with a fixed price.

00:52:39.760 --> 00:52:46.639
I mean, yeah, I don't know whether you do or don't, but I mean, like the point of that guarantee for a month afterwards is like reducing your risk, right?

00:52:46.800 --> 00:52:49.760
Because the risk is, I mean, I I use this example all the time.

00:52:49.840 --> 00:52:59.119
You're you know, I think I'm you know relatively savvy technically, and I I had a nice big printer, HP, three, four hundred dollars, and at some point I got tired of buying the expensive things.

00:52:59.199 --> 00:53:02.880
And I'm like, look online, did the research on the$60 printer.

00:53:03.039 --> 00:53:06.880
I mean, recommended by a whole bunch of websites, go and buy it, and I mean, look fine.

00:53:06.960 --> 00:53:08.800
It has scanner, it has printing.

00:53:08.960 --> 00:53:11.920
I don't know if you still had facts at the time, but obviously it doesn't matter.

00:53:12.079 --> 00:53:14.639
So, I mean, I printed for about a month, right?

00:53:14.719 --> 00:53:19.840
And then after that, uh, basically I have a contract that I need to sign, like 20-30 pages, right?

00:53:19.920 --> 00:53:24.559
You know, so do PDF, you know, like whatever that, and then you have to scan it to send it out.

00:53:24.719 --> 00:53:27.840
Turns out this printer, you could only scan one page at a time.

00:53:28.079 --> 00:53:38.960
If you wanted to sort of make one PDF out of them, you had to scan, put go back and say, add the next page they're gonna scan to this PDF, otherwise, you would just keep creating another PDF, another PDF.

00:53:39.039 --> 00:53:41.039
But I'm like, I'm not doing this, right?

00:53:41.199 --> 00:53:44.480
But Chris, you said about SMBs, I have a limited uh budget.

00:53:44.639 --> 00:53:50.559
Here's the thing you know, I could just throw I threw that away immediately and I went and bought back a$300 printer, you know.

00:53:50.639 --> 00:54:05.199
But I made an assumption in terms of what is there, but I mean that's a risk because if you don't have the money to throw away that printer and put a new one, now you're stuck with a subpar system because maybe QuickBooks plus Excel was actually more efficient to them than something that I put you into this, right?

00:54:05.360 --> 00:54:10.800
So, my point with this is my goal here is also to reduce the risk for the client, right?

00:54:10.960 --> 00:54:17.519
With subscription, there is exactly leveling off on the budgeting and in the long run building a relationship that technically makes things better.

00:54:17.679 --> 00:54:18.800
Fixed price, same thing.

00:54:18.880 --> 00:54:26.639
So, I mean, if you know, if you that's again going back to a flock, if you view me as a partner rather than just someone that's gonna deliver you the cheapest, right?

00:54:26.800 --> 00:54:28.079
You know, then that's fine.

00:54:28.239 --> 00:54:45.760
I mean, I think interesting enough, because we keep going back to this analogy, you know, to this analogy, and this is the only thing where I mean it is a frustration for me in terms of the response so far to this, is like if someone came in your house a plumber and said, you know, hey, it's gonna tell you, I'm gonna charge you whatever per hour, put a number, right?

00:54:46.000 --> 00:54:47.679
And I'll let you know when it's done.

00:54:47.760 --> 00:54:49.039
I mean, nobody would go with that, right?

00:54:49.119 --> 00:54:52.800
I mean, like nobody in their right mind would ever go with this, but that's the problem.

00:54:52.960 --> 00:54:58.880
Why is it, and you guys can tell me your theory, why is it that that's not the same attitude?

00:54:58.960 --> 00:55:03.599
Because everybody has a house, everybody's gone through these experiences from the people that work with our clients.

00:55:03.760 --> 00:55:05.519
Why is it that it's such a hard sell?

00:55:05.679 --> 00:55:12.079
And why is it that uh, you know, we we talk about something as if you know, this is the you know, we we just discovered the wheel, right?

00:55:12.320 --> 00:55:35.920
You know, and basically the answer this year, when I talk to marketers and everything else, and I've heard this answer before, their answer is well, people don't make decisions based on the value and what it is there, they base decision talking of risk, decision of can I justify to my board afterwards if this thing goes bad, and if I choose a small company or something different, then they're gonna blame me.

00:55:36.079 --> 00:55:50.800
And my argument is I almost wish I was in the regular home contracting because in home contracting it's your money, and if you know, if your boiler doesn't work, your house is cold, so you're gonna do the best to get the best outcome.

00:55:50.960 --> 00:56:12.000
Whereas according to marketers, and I mean I've seen in my experiences when we're you know bidding for projects, a lot of times people will go for either just personal connection because they love the salesperson, or they perceive that the bigger partner, regardless of the you know, regardless whether that is way more money, whatever, they're just gonna go with that because it's less risk in terms of making that selection.

00:56:12.320 --> 00:56:16.239
So it's kind of interesting that it is there like that.

00:56:17.679 --> 00:56:18.559
That is it.

00:56:18.719 --> 00:56:22.320
They it's it's the value to them, and no one will go.

00:56:22.639 --> 00:56:31.280
It is the times have changed, I think, and it's it's because of uh to Chris's point, uh, those making the decisions grew up differently.

00:56:31.360 --> 00:56:32.800
I I I hate to say it.

00:56:32.960 --> 00:56:45.119
It's it's you're you're used to doing something, and again, like you said, if someone's gonna come in and tell me, uh, you need to fix my toilet, ah uh it may take me about 10 hours at about$200 an hour or whatever it is.

00:56:45.280 --> 00:56:47.760
Uh but if it takes more, I'll let you know.

00:56:48.320 --> 00:56:49.199
You can't budget on it.

00:56:49.280 --> 00:56:52.000
And again, there's a value to having the toilet fixed.

00:56:52.079 --> 00:56:56.960
And contrary to popular belief, you could just say take the same, you know, do the math like you did.

00:56:57.119 --> 00:56:59.440
$200 an hour, it's one hour, I make$200.

00:56:59.840 --> 00:57:07.039
If my toilet's broken, if you came in and told me it'd be$600 to fix it and you got it done in one hour, I'd pay the$600 because I need my toilet fixed.

00:57:07.280 --> 00:57:08.000
Do you follow what I'm saying?

00:57:08.079 --> 00:57:16.239
So it's it's people think that by the hour you you you you're quantifying, it's more like you're quantifying the time versus the value.

00:57:16.400 --> 00:57:23.840
Where if you quantify the value, I think you can I don't want to say get more from it, it's just easier for everybody to accept.

00:57:24.079 --> 00:57:28.960
I'm going to have a toilet that's fixed, cost me six hundred dollars, you're gonna get it done today.

00:57:29.039 --> 00:57:29.840
That's all I care about.

00:57:30.000 --> 00:57:38.800
I don't care about if it took you an hour, I don't care if about it took you two hours, I don't I just want the toilet to be fixed, and you told me to be done today for six hundred dollars.

00:57:39.440 --> 00:57:40.400
You you know what's wild.

00:57:41.280 --> 00:57:42.079
Am I wrong in that thinking?

00:57:42.159 --> 00:57:42.480
Or no?

00:57:42.880 --> 00:57:53.760
No, no, it's it's it's a it's a a great analogy because people don't realize, like, for example, you get something fixed and I'm happy with a customer service, I'm happy with the result.

00:57:54.800 --> 00:57:58.719
I don't go back and tell everyone it's cost me this much at all.

00:57:58.960 --> 00:58:00.320
I just like it works.

00:58:00.480 --> 00:58:02.639
I'm happy and move on with my life.

00:58:02.719 --> 00:58:05.199
And and I tell everybody how great you were.

00:58:05.440 --> 00:58:06.159
Yes, exactly.

00:58:06.320 --> 00:58:07.360
I don't tell the price.

00:58:08.960 --> 00:58:10.320
I'm the biggest promoter of things.

00:58:10.480 --> 00:58:12.320
You know, I'm the because most people will complain.

00:58:12.400 --> 00:58:16.400
Like if you look at like people do ratings and reviews, they're like they only do when they complain.

00:58:16.559 --> 00:58:17.360
I'm on the flip side.

00:58:17.519 --> 00:58:20.800
You talk to people around me, if I read a book that's great, I tell everybody to read the book.

00:58:21.039 --> 00:58:24.400
If I work with somebody that did something for me, I tell everybody, right?

00:58:24.639 --> 00:58:25.920
Because again, it goes to what you're saying.

00:58:26.000 --> 00:58:37.519
I think with your point of like the larger partners people go with them, and it may cost more to reduce the risk, it's because they have an assumption of reputation that they wouldn't be such a large partner if they weren't successful, if you follow what I'm saying.

00:58:37.760 --> 00:58:46.000
Where again it comes it cut it does come down to having a relationship reputation, and you have to be able to deliver as well.

00:58:46.159 --> 00:59:01.280
I mean, listen, you won't have a reputation and um you won't have the ability to have a good reput reputation and relationships if you don't deliver, but it it it sometimes people need to take a look at that of um as well.

00:59:02.239 --> 00:59:04.800
I mean, uh it's kind of like yeah, but that's kind of the thing.

00:59:04.880 --> 00:59:08.000
So like uh it still is the pervasive model.

00:59:08.159 --> 00:59:13.440
And yeah, I mean, there is the reputation and the implication of, but I don't I think it's more of like less risk for them.

00:59:13.519 --> 00:59:16.800
I mean, this is what I mean, like a bunch of marketers told me the same thing, right?

00:59:16.960 --> 00:59:31.039
Um, because I mean to me that to me that's the same way as we're using your you know, plumber fixing your toilet, is you know, would you, you know, if two two basic plumbers come to you and say, you know, well, I have a college degree, and the other says I don't have a college degree, you're gonna go with the college degree one.

00:59:31.199 --> 00:59:35.280
No, you still gotta go with the one that seems more likely to be able to fix it.

00:59:35.440 --> 00:59:38.880
And if they both give you a fixed price, maybe you go with the one that's slightly cheaper, right?

00:59:39.039 --> 00:59:43.840
But I mean, that doesn't seem to be, as of today, the decision model, right?

00:59:44.000 --> 00:59:45.760
You know, for a lot for a lot of people.

00:59:45.840 --> 00:59:59.840
And I mean, I, you know, there's an interesting thing also with marketing where they're like, well, when I go and say, look, this seems this doesn't create the right incentives, the idea is that that's not the right messaging, because then you you're saying that the customers that are going by Oli Rate, they're wrong, right?

01:00:00.159 --> 01:00:07.519
And I mean I I like to say that at least what I'm doing right now, it's more of like, look, as long as there's not an option out there, right?

01:00:07.760 --> 01:00:09.920
Then technically, why you can can you do?

01:00:10.079 --> 01:00:16.320
I mean, like, you know, there's a lot of lawyers that offer um, you know, offer basic key sort of retainers, right?

01:00:16.480 --> 01:00:26.880
Um, and I mean, I just got a notification from the lawyer that I use that I use that his rate are going to for senior and junior 750 and 450 an hour, which by the way means we're in their own business.

01:00:27.119 --> 01:00:30.559
But, you know, essentially the retainers don't reflect that.

01:00:30.639 --> 01:00:32.079
So, I mean, like that's kind of the idea.

01:00:32.159 --> 01:00:37.679
For us, at this point, if we start offering this, I mean, I'm interested to see if people will respond to it.

01:00:37.760 --> 01:01:04.559
I mean, I can tell you that as much marketing as I've done, the I've managed to make some sales that way, but they still have been through my own connection, then through people responding to this, which is kind of the one thing that I still want to understand why is that, you know, because the only explanation that does make sense is that one where people are because it's not your money, you're gonna decide because it's not your house, you're gonna decide on what keeps your job rather than the value of it, right?

01:01:05.760 --> 01:01:08.559
And I mean, that goes back to the fuck, you know.

01:01:08.639 --> 01:01:13.599
I mean, I I I have and I do work with a bunch of companies from a private equity.

01:01:13.679 --> 01:01:16.800
And by the way, you know, Brad, you're talking about like stress and everything else.

01:01:16.960 --> 01:01:22.480
You know, I have uh I invented a phrase that originally started my own personal life, but I mean applies to work as well.

01:01:22.639 --> 01:01:23.679
Problems you shouldn't have.

01:01:23.760 --> 01:01:26.000
I have no problem dealing with problems, you know.

01:01:26.159 --> 01:01:29.039
I mean, life is full of problems, work and personal.

01:01:29.199 --> 01:01:34.559
I hate problems you shouldn't have when you do when things could be avoided and you still create them, right?

01:01:34.719 --> 01:01:44.800
With the private equity, what I found is they are very, you know, they're very demanding, they're very sort of like, you know, sort of, you know, not you know, the core, whatever.

01:01:44.880 --> 01:01:51.119
They're not like a person, you know, like it's it's a different personality with them, but they just want to get stuff done, right?

01:01:51.280 --> 01:01:52.400
And I love working with that.

01:01:52.480 --> 01:01:57.679
I don't care, you don't need to be polite, you don't need to be nice, you don't need to sort of, you know, take me out for dinner, you don't need to say thank you.

01:01:57.920 --> 01:02:04.480
I love when you work with, you know, when you work with people that want to get stuff done versus people that that's where the problems you shouldn't have.

01:02:04.559 --> 01:02:08.320
You know, in a lot of clients, I've seen things, especially when it's kind of in between.

01:02:08.480 --> 01:02:12.079
When you have an owner, there's always someone that can kind of calm down everybody, right?

01:02:12.239 --> 01:02:17.199
Well, but then if you have like sort of a diffuse ownership, there's a lot more politics, right?

01:02:17.360 --> 01:02:22.400
And I mean, I've always going back to our analogy with the house, which will stick forever in everybody's mind.

01:02:22.719 --> 01:02:26.960
I see myself at this point, for better or for worse, that plumber with a butt crack.

01:02:27.039 --> 01:02:31.840
You know, I want to come in and fix your toilet, you know, you go do watch TV, and I'll tell you when it's done.

01:02:32.000 --> 01:02:37.360
You know, don't come over and tell me, don't come over and tell me how to do it, because if you did, then you do it.

01:02:37.599 --> 01:02:41.920
Also, you know, I don't care if you take credit afterwards, but don't come in and interfere.

01:02:42.000 --> 01:02:47.920
Don't come in and sort of comment or, you know, guess, you know, sort of, you know, try to second guess what I'm doing, whatever, right?

01:02:48.079 --> 01:02:50.639
You know, so that's kind of you know, that's kind of the thing.

01:02:50.719 --> 01:03:03.519
I hate when you go into the situations where you have to, you know, basically um, you know, sort of like run through the politics and the goal, you know, everybody has their own goal, and most of the time is not actually getting this thing done, you know.

01:03:03.760 --> 01:03:13.199
So that's why if you find those people that actually just want to go somewhere, and uh Chris, you did you use that example with like someone that's growing, maybe at the beginning they just need a little bit.

01:03:13.360 --> 01:03:20.800
And this sort of partners with that idea of partner, like you could almost partner with that person to provide them the tech stack, right?

01:03:21.199 --> 01:03:25.280
That is actually the same as having a warehouse, same as having a Z com.

01:03:25.599 --> 01:03:26.559
You could view it that way.

01:03:26.719 --> 01:03:36.800
And at that at that point, you can almost argue that you could be a minority owner in that company and you could offer it for a lot lower cost, and then you have a equity coming afterwards, right?

01:03:36.880 --> 01:03:45.039
So you can make that that would be an ideal model that you at some point I believe can be done even from our industry if we want to move on that way.

01:03:45.280 --> 01:03:47.199
But I mean, to me, the subscription is the same thing.

01:03:47.280 --> 01:03:51.599
I basically sort of becoming one of your running costs, right?

01:03:51.679 --> 01:03:54.719
The same way as electricity, the same way as an office, same way as everything else.

01:03:54.880 --> 01:03:59.280
But here's the thing that means my job is not just to do when you tell me something, get it done.

01:03:59.440 --> 01:04:01.679
My job is to think about what I need to do for you.

01:04:01.840 --> 01:04:03.840
My job is to think what will be beneficial for you.

01:04:04.000 --> 01:04:10.400
And I think the AI thing is gonna be one of the reasons that technically this kind of approach should be taken for two reasons.

01:04:10.639 --> 01:04:14.960
Number one, everybody talks about how what how to do it I how to put it in and whatever.

01:04:15.119 --> 01:04:19.119
Nobody talks about what the cost is once AI is there, what else needs to be done?

01:04:19.199 --> 01:04:22.639
Because the I is not gonna be setting and forget it for a long time, no matter what.

01:04:22.880 --> 01:04:28.159
So now the question is I have the option of a BC mod or I have the option of an AI agent, right?

01:04:28.480 --> 01:04:32.800
So, how are you gonna figure out which one is more cost effective in the long run, right?

01:04:33.199 --> 01:04:37.599
You can pay me to do this on an hourly rate and sort of do that analysis for you.

01:04:37.840 --> 01:04:50.559
Or if I know, I mean, uh you know, I need to justify my existence, I mean one part of your organization, I'm gonna look at it and allow you to basically see, you know, try these things without necessarily paying a cost for it, right?

01:04:50.800 --> 01:05:02.559
You know, so I mean I think that's that's one of the benefits of having it together, and then yes, generally allowing me to try things, like this is what the guy with the CRM said for his customers.

01:05:02.800 --> 01:05:04.800
She would go and say, Let's try some stuff.

01:05:04.880 --> 01:05:05.920
You know, have you considered this?

01:05:06.000 --> 01:05:06.480
Have you considered?

01:05:06.800 --> 01:05:12.400
So for us looking at something and coming back and providing it to them and saying, Here's an idea, here's something else.

01:05:12.559 --> 01:05:20.719
If it's in the subscription and you didn't have any other task, you know, uh, I mean, you're not gonna have a problem with me doing this, and if it doesn't go anywhere, it doesn't go anywhere.

01:05:20.800 --> 01:05:23.199
But ultimately, it's a benefit for you to figure out.

01:05:23.280 --> 01:05:30.159
So, with all these things together, uh, you know, you can sort of basically become a company together with every single client.

01:05:30.960 --> 01:05:34.400
I I do I do see it changing.

01:05:34.639 --> 01:05:39.119
I I do see the model changing or the need for the model to change as time progresses.

01:05:39.280 --> 01:05:42.480
As as you know, we're talking about billing for time, that's why I threw that in there.

01:05:42.719 --> 01:05:52.079
But I I I think there will be a shift to uh you're you're paying for the the value of the service or you're paying for the service, not for the time to do the service.

01:05:53.039 --> 01:05:58.239
Yeah, and you hit that uh uh perfectly with with all the you know building this relationship.

01:05:58.320 --> 01:06:23.920
I I think uh just to go back to like the building house or something coming to your house and do the maintenance, you know, one one of the things that I'll always remember anytime someone comes out and do a maintenance in my house, one thing I'll always remember is the time that it the time that they took to educate me and how to maintain and properly, you know, um uh uh create that longevity of whatever I had made uh uh have them come out to do maintenance.

01:06:24.320 --> 01:06:27.679
It's that just taking the time and just educating me a little bit more.

01:06:28.079 --> 01:06:29.760
And I will always remember that, right?

01:06:29.840 --> 01:06:41.599
So it's it's no different of us as partners that are helping organizations implement something or or or install something for them and taking that time to educate them.

01:06:41.760 --> 01:06:51.599
And so that in itself gives you a lasting relationship, or actually actually kind of like putting a bow uh uh you know when you when you're done doing some work for them.

01:06:51.760 --> 01:06:59.599
So uh I do want to make that point because uh every time I've done work in the past and I educate them and they always come back.

01:06:59.679 --> 01:07:10.079
I remember when you took the time to help us out and um you know, and we still reference uh reference uh those those documents and reference those education that you've given us.

01:07:11.679 --> 01:07:14.239
See, it all comes down to the relationship, I think.

01:07:14.320 --> 01:07:16.000
Um I think it's an interesting model.

01:07:16.159 --> 01:07:20.239
I I uh sounds like it's going well, uh you know, as you just started it.

01:07:20.400 --> 01:07:23.599
Uh I know when I first saw it, I was uh intrigued.

01:07:23.679 --> 01:07:24.960
Uh I was interested.

01:07:25.920 --> 01:07:27.519
It is controversial, isn't it?

01:07:27.760 --> 01:07:34.159
It's still it it's it's con it's not controversial in a sense.

01:07:34.400 --> 01:07:36.079
Uh it's different.

01:07:37.119 --> 01:07:48.880
I think if uh to your point about uh about the marketing of it, how do you put all of this into a one-page uh uh paper that people can get from it?

01:07:49.119 --> 01:07:58.480
It's a little bit different, but I also think uh some pieces of it you could put together because I think it would resonate with those making the decision.

01:07:58.559 --> 01:08:04.079
Uh, you know, equate it to a monthly subscription for cable, equate it to a monthly subscription for something.

01:08:04.239 --> 01:08:15.360
You're getting us you're not using those words because I don't want to I don't want to trivialize the importance of it either, but it's also you're used to subscriptions now, you pay for it, you use it, and you go with it, I think.

01:08:15.519 --> 01:08:18.640
But um I do think there needs to be a change, time value, money.

01:08:18.800 --> 01:08:23.199
Uh it has to change uh uh because of just technology.

01:08:23.359 --> 01:08:25.600
Uh things are things are getting done faster.

01:08:25.680 --> 01:08:32.960
Uh and I'm not saying AI is doing it all and it's faster, but as again, used to take a long time to build a house, then they invented the air guns.

01:08:33.119 --> 01:08:34.640
Houses took less time to build.

01:08:34.960 --> 01:08:35.840
It's just reality.

01:08:35.920 --> 01:08:42.319
It's it's not uh saying that something's going to end all and do it all, but electric saws helped cut wood.

01:08:42.479 --> 01:08:44.239
Uh so now you can cut the wood faster.

01:08:44.399 --> 01:08:48.720
Does it mean that you should you know the value of the house is less?

01:08:49.760 --> 01:08:51.039
Yeah, obviously it does.

01:08:51.439 --> 01:08:52.399
Uh no, great.

01:08:52.479 --> 01:08:54.960
Thank you for taking the time to speak with us today.

01:08:55.039 --> 01:09:03.039
I'm uh glad I get to talk with you uh and and you spent the time to talk with Chris and I about uh the billable hour being dead.

01:09:03.119 --> 01:09:03.600
I like that guy.

01:09:03.680 --> 01:09:05.600
I like calling it that the billable hour is dead.

01:09:05.680 --> 01:09:13.520
If anybody would like to contact you to learn a little bit more about uh these services or to talk with you about setting up an arrangement for these services, what's the best way to contact you?

01:09:13.840 --> 01:09:16.159
I mean, just the simplest one because that's easy to remember.

01:09:16.319 --> 01:09:17.840
Howlyrate is dead.com.

01:09:18.000 --> 01:09:20.239
Just read and then just contact through there.

01:09:20.319 --> 01:09:21.920
I mean, it's the easiest name to remember.

01:09:22.000 --> 01:09:22.399
So, you know.

01:09:22.720 --> 01:09:24.319
Hourlyrate is dead.com.

01:09:24.399 --> 01:09:24.960
I love that.

01:09:25.119 --> 01:09:25.600
I love that.

01:09:25.680 --> 01:09:26.239
That's great.

01:09:26.399 --> 01:09:27.119
Uh, thank you again.

01:09:27.199 --> 01:09:28.399
Look forward to talking with you soon.

01:09:28.560 --> 01:09:30.159
And um uh talk to you later.

01:09:30.239 --> 01:09:30.560
Ciao, ciao.

01:09:30.640 --> 01:09:31.279
Take care, Christian.

01:09:31.359 --> 01:09:31.760
Thank you guys.

01:09:31.920 --> 01:09:32.319
Bye-bye.

01:09:34.079 --> 01:09:39.279
Thank you, Chris, for your time for another episode of In the Dynamics Corner Chair.

01:09:39.359 --> 01:09:41.439
And thank you to our guests for participating.

01:09:41.680 --> 01:09:43.199
Thank you, Brad, for your time.

01:09:43.359 --> 01:09:46.880
It is a wonderful episode of Dynamics Corner Chair.

01:09:47.119 --> 01:09:50.399
I would also like to thank our guests for join joining us.

01:09:50.640 --> 01:09:53.359
Thank you for all of our listeners tuning in as well.

01:09:53.600 --> 01:09:57.439
You can find Brad at developerlife.com.

01:09:57.680 --> 01:10:07.760
That is D V-L-P-R-L-I-F-E.com, and you can interact with them via Twitter D V L P R L I F E.

01:10:08.399 --> 01:10:21.119
You can also find me at mattalino.io mate a l i-n-o.io, and my Twitter handle is mattalino16.

01:10:22.000 --> 01:10:24.880
And see you can see those links down below in the show notes.

01:10:25.039 --> 01:10:28.159
Again, thank you everyone, thank you, and take care.