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Welcome everyone to another episode of Dynamics Corner.
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I've been thinking about it lately.
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Brad, what does the partner ecosystem is going to look like in the very near future?
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I'm your co-host, Chris.
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And this is Brad.
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This episode is recorded on February 25th, 2026.
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Chris, Chris, Chris.
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What will the ecosystem look like in the future?
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I don't know.
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I really don't know.
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I've had many conversations, heard a lot of opinions, a lot of different insights.
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One thing a lot of people talk about is is the billable hour dead?
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Should we have a subscription model, the value of the billable hour?
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With us today, we had the opportunity to speak with two individuals to discuss just that.
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We had the opportunity to speak with uh Christina Cola and Alfredo.
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Good afternoon.
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Should I say good morning?
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Yes, yes, and where you are.
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We're uh we're running all over the world.
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It's interesting um with time zones.
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I really wish we just had one time zone, to be honest with you.
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I think that it would be so neat to have just one time.
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Like if um if it's 0600, it's 0600.
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If you're in England, 0600 may be your bedtime, and if you're on the west coast of the United States, it may be your waking time, right?
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It just doesn't matter, but it makes it easier for us to communicate if we say we want to have a meeting at a specific hour.
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Yeah, that's true.
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I I guess everybody should change.
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Everybody should change for us, you know, to make it easy for you, Brad.
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You know, yeah.
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There was a time when when one nation dictated a time zone for everybody, and so that was before 1776.
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And so some people objected that that wasn't really the right correct thing to do, and then we we are that's right.
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Well, uh I I I object to having multiple time zones, and I wish we just had one time.
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So if I said we're meeting at uh a specific time, everybody knows what that time is, and you just your schedule where you're located would dictate, you know, sundown you go to bed, sunrise you wake up, you get hungry, you eat, right?
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It doesn't have to be that's how it used to be.
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Well, in the days of technology and and uh how fast we can do things and and the advances of technology, I almost want to go back to doing that, but um that's not what we're here to talk about.
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We're actually here to talk about something different.
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But before we jump into that conversation, uh, would you mind telling us a little bit about yourself, Alfredo?
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Yes, absolutely.
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Happy to tell you more about myself.
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So my name is Alfredo, as you can clearly see here, um, and I am the founder and principal trainer at uh D365 Training, which is a Microsoft Training Services partner that I started um a couple of years ago after spending a few um years in consulting.
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And so um I take care of the uh training programs for consultants of users.
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Uh we primarily work on essentially two channels.
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Uh one is the training for certifications, and the other is bespoke training and advisory.
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And I've been working in Dynamics for about 12, 13 years.
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But before that, I used to be a supply chain um consultant, and before that logistics and I started my career uh as a delivery driver.
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Um and that's how essentially I paid for my uh for my service.
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And I used to have a problem with that, you know, my my first few years in consulting, right?
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Putting on a suit and starting, you know, talking uh getting to a you know meeting room with uh CFOs and directors and other consultants hired, you know, more senior than me.
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And and I used to say, oh no, I should never really, you know, let people know that that I used to be a delivery driver uh and then a warehouse worker.
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But then um eventually, as I started working in operation and supply chain management, I realized that actually that gave me a unique insight.
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And so uh a few years ago I decided to play that card when I was having a meeting with a warehouse manager and said, You guys wearing these fancy shoes talking about technology, you got no idea what we do here day in and day out.
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I said, hold on, give them a mate and I put on my my class C driving license.
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Can you see that?
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You know, 12 years ago, before you you even started, you know, working in in the in these in these, you know, in this warehouse, I used to drive one of those.
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So in exact I know exactly what you're talking about.
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That, as you can imagine, has changed the the the tone of the conversation.
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And and since then, and said, you know what?
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Um I'm gonna keep my driver license.
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I don't drive in the lorries anymore.
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Um, but I still have my driver license.
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Not for fun.
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And so, yeah.
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I drive as little as possible, period.
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So I can relate to that.
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But it is that's an interesting story, and it is uh I think it is good when you have those conversations where you can relate to someone to it, gives you some common ground and a sense of understanding, so that it's easier to communicate if somebody uh I have found it.
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In my opinion, that it's easy to communicate with someone if you have a similarity or a similar background, uh, because it you can get that you you understand and um it they don't feel like you don't understand, I guess you could say you have that uh commonality.
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Uh interesting story.
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Uh suits.
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Speaking of suits, I haven't worn a suit.
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I think I wear a suit rarely at this point.
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When I first started consulting, I used to wear suits all the time, but now times have changed over here at least.
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Even ties.
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You gotta wear ties, you know.
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They used to wear a tie every day.
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Uh now I only do it at special occasions, you know, that um yeah, where it's customary.
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It's interesting how uh dress has changed.
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I know some areas of business still wear suits and ties, but it's no longer you know predominant.
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Um, Mr.
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Christie, sir.
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Uh, you mind telling us a little bit about yourself?
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First of all, this is probably in the last year, this is probably the third or fourth time I'm wearing a shirt.
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That's just for you, you know.
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I don't I don't usually wear those things, but I figured, hey, why not?
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So anyway, uh my name is Christi Nicola, and I mean I I've been doing business central since 1999, well, when it was covered in.
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Um, I mean, I guess as of right now, basically the way we the way we hear is um me keep keep keep talking about the subscription concept, fixed price, though mainly subscription on both in Power BI and Business Central, right?
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Um I don't think I have a I don't think I have a good story, um the opposite of Alfredo from that perspective.
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Um you know, I feel uh you see some origin from Romania, right?
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I mean I worked in UK for two years and then I worked in the US here.
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And I've always been, you know, it's always been a little bit of a difference, right?
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Because it's kind of I don't really belong in Europe anymore, but I'm also not 100% American, right?
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You know, so it's always been for me between that and being a computer programmer at origin, right?
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It's always been my mindset is just sort of straight to the point and you know, just sort of break things down and whatever, but obviously sometimes not sometimes, a lot of times the ability to relate obviously helps.
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So that's always been an interesting tension, right?
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Um, and actually lately with the it's funny because I mean I guess I am probably closer to American right now, given I've been here for a long time, but you know, I've I've had some interactions with companies up in Europe, and it's you know, I cannot believe, you know, I cannot believe the differences, right?
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Because I've I guess I've changed that much.
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There's a lot more a lot more, I don't know if it's rigid or structure, depending on how you want to look at it, right?
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But it's kind of a weird thing to find myself somewhere in the middle, right?
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Because I'm also not a hundred percent American.
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So but yeah, that's always been an interesting sort of you know part of how do you convey your message, you know.
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It is interesting.
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Geographical differences are everywhere, and it's even within the United States, if you're in one portion of the country, sometimes you can say or do something that someone may think is improper, where in another region it is.
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But you you you mentioned that you're you're sort of in the middle, which makes me think of the question: when someone asks a person where they're from, what is the answer?
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Right.
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And where I'm going with this is you could be born in one place, but then live in another place for 20 years.
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And where do you say you're from?
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Right?
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Is it from the 20, the place that you live for 20 years, or is it from where you're born, or is it from where you feel is home?
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Like I I know myself, I I grew up in the Northeast, and I spent most of my life in one state, and then I before I moved down here, I transitioned to another state, but I call that state home, even though I spent most of my life in a different place.
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You you let the whole timeline, you talk about the whole timeline, because like in in in in the US, right, you have states, and some sometimes someone asks where you're from, you have to say what state you're from, and then you eventually like oh, I move here, here, here, and then end up here.
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This is my home now.
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But you you could sort of have to tell that.
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Because I think everybody has come from somewhere.
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But everyone does, but what do you call home?
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Right?
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Do you call home is it where you live most of your life, or is it where you feel it's when you have your driver's license at the state, and then you and then you say that's where my home is.
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Look, it's I don't know what you're saying.
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I don't know what you're saying, but here's the one answer that you can never say that it's your home, okay?
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Lori died, you can never be with the straight face say that is your home, okay?
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That is true.
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I will never I won't dispute you on that one.
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We may disagree on some things over the years that we've known each other, but that one I I uh I finally agree with you on that one.
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What they're what they're saying is that Florida, there's no nobody native there, is what they're saying.
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Yeah, everyone everyone got imported into Florida.
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Yeah, most people transplants.
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Yeah.
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I've I have tried to, I mean, I I normally and my answer is I mean, when I came to US, it was you know New York, and then I mean I did travel actually around the country, Houston, Montana, and then back into upstate New York and now back in New York City.
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So I do say New York, right?
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When people ask me where I'm from, but then they they usually always go, oh yeah, that's an amazing New York accent, you know.
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So it's like I mean then I have to cut that I have to clarify.
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I mean, I'm pissed off because I was two years in UK and I wish I actually got the British accent, you know, but what are you gonna do?
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But I mean, yeah, normally New York for me feels a lot more home than anything else, you know.
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So that's yeah, that's that's where I was wondering it says home.
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Yeah, Alfredo has the great accent.
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It's uh soothing.
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I listened to his uh his videos that he he shares and the snippets and stuff, and it's it's uh soothing, it's educational as well as soothing.
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Uh it's it's it's good for uh for learning.
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Um but uh the uh to get into the conversation, Chris, you spoke with us a few episodes ago.
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I'm not certain exact the time, but uh and it's a conversation that I've seen a lot of and heard a lot of and participated in with um where we are in the world, and it's you know time and material, you know, the billow all hour versus the subscription type model or the paying for the service type model.
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So if you could, could you just bring us back to your take on uh implementations in the model for billing?
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Okay, so I mean basically the model for us would be subscription model, is probably the main one.
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Um and essentially the idea is, I mean, I guess, you know, I figured originally, though, that probably shouldn't, you know, it's not the only thing about it.
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Uh it's sort of unlimited development.
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I mean, essentially, um limited development both for business central and for Power BI.
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But obviously, ultimately, not anything can be unlimited totally.
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So the rule that we have is basically one project at a time.
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So, you know, you can put as many as you want in the queue, but we only work on one at a time, you know.
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Um, I mean, other people that offering subscription model, not necessarily I mean, I don't know anybody else offering Ren RPC, but I've modeled myself when I've asked questions when I thought about this from CRM, from Powered Platform.
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Each of them has a little bit of a different way of just kind of how they sort of put a limitation to it, right?
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So for us, it's kind of a model of you for hiring, and you know, if you had a team for yourself, you would kind of be working on one thing, and if something becomes a priority, then essentially you sort of you know, you switch them to that, then you put the other thing on pause, and then you go back to it and every you know, things like that.
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And then let's say if there's multiple projects, theoretically you can add multiple.
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Well, one subscription we think of it as a pipeline.
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So, I mean, you can add multiple pipelines if you truly had that much development, right?
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I mean, I got on I don't know that unless you're a partner, which is obviously the subscription model could work for a partner as well as for a customer.
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You know, if you're a partner, you probably could need more than one.
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Um, and then also, I mean, I try to, but it's a mouthful to try to put this in marketing, but it's not about hey, you get a fractional developer, right?
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I mean, if if you want to use the word fractional, you get a fraction of a team, right?
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You know, essentially you get, you know, PM, consultant, system architect, developer, everything that we everything that we have in our company, right?
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Um, essentially would be sort of applicable.
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I mean, I'm going with the idea of at some point, even like it's an artificial division between the development and power BI, and maybe to certain extent consulting as well, right?
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Arguably you could offer one that is just whatever you need for your business central system right now, right?
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Um, I think usually the challenge there would be that you you know, we you could easily get stuck on doing Power BI for a long time.
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So I think the whole one task at a time could become limiting in terms of what you can do.
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So that's pretty much what we do.
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I mean, there is also the fixed price um, you know, option, but it's all that's a little bit more obvious, you know, from other people.
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Um, but I mean I think ultimately the idea is here is people would go for this whether you know for two things, whether because they have a lot of stuff and they just need predictability uh in terms of you know ease of budgeting, you know how much it's gonna cost.
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Um, and I mean over time the benefits of being building a relationship with someone like us is just it compounds, right?
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I mean, you know, you we get to learn about your system, and I mean our you know incentive is to sort of keep delivering value.
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And actually, equally important, I when I was talking to you know the person that I probably impressed me the most that he was doing on the CRM, it's almost easier job to obviously self-interest to find more stuff for them to give it to them, right?
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But that means you know, essentially, if you're not worried about billing, you can go and once you learn a company, you can make suggestions and say, have you ever considered this?
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Have you considered this?
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Or by the way, you could improve this process if you wanted, and here's how it would look.
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Imagine, you know, normally if you try to do this for anybody, you know, normally you'd have to ask them to bill for it, but you know, you can it sort of provides you a big, you know, a more collaborative way with them.
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Interesting.
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Uh Alfredo, you have a a take on that as well, if you mind uh sharing that with it.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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Absolutely.
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So um my take is um mainly um coming from um what I'm doing now, uh uh as I moved away from solution architecture and consulting, and I started doing more training and eventually advisory.
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I see that both models can work really well, but they typically work well and they address two different um, let's say, um scenarios, particularly they aligned to a different strategy.
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And so uh let me tell you what happens um with with us with D3S5 training.
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We have fixed price for training for certifications, um, and that goes without um it's quite obvious, right?
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Because it's pretty much a package service, and we need to comply with the Microsoft um curriculum because we help um consultants and users learn to pass the exam, essentially.
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Uh we also have a fixed prize or um what we call corporate training, right?
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You need to train 50 users and shop law team manufacturing and handhelds, right?
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And it's pretty much like outcome-based.
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And if it's outcome-based, it means at the end of our training sessions, uh your users' proficiency and ability to use the applications will go from 20% to 20%, and we measure the before and after.
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And that is absolutely a perfect surprise because time and material doesn't really work, right?
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But it's outcome-based more than related to the um the product itself.
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So I may have a gigantic markup on that, right?
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But that doesn't matter.
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So it's outcome-based.
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Once that and the outcome-based and the fixed price, it's a very good way to eliminate or remove resistance when you talk into a new counselor, a new prospect.
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Because as Kristen correctly said, it's uh well, that's aligned to my budget, right?
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I am shopping for um this product or service.
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My manager gave me a budget to spend, and of course, my manager expects a sort of an improvement.
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In our case, is again a proficiency or ability to pass the exam and obtain the certification measurable and specific.
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And that is a good way to get through um your clients um and acquire new clients.
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What happens afterwards if we provide when we provide more value in terms of value perceived by the client, and we do that because we always we we never go through the official uh Microsoft training um platform, we always enhance it.
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So all my collaborators are Microsoft certified trainers and consultants with at least 10 years of experience.
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Um the the trainer who takes care of finance and operations and manufacturing, she's uh she works um with dynamics and also SAP.
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So she knows manufacturing inside out.
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And so once we get that additional value, so you know what?
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You went the extra mile.
00:18:43.279 --> 00:18:46.720
You overpromised and over-delivered, right?
00:18:47.039 --> 00:18:53.359
Just to use, you know, just to change a phrase, which is a very common one in business, and then you start with advisory.
00:18:53.440 --> 00:19:02.640
And advisory, in my opinion, is now we move away from outcome-based and fixed price.
00:19:03.279 --> 00:19:06.559
And it can be a retainer, but it's definitely time and material.
00:19:07.039 --> 00:19:11.440
And the benefit of working on time and material is that the clients ask me for time and material.
00:19:11.759 --> 00:19:13.200
And I'll give you an example.
00:19:14.640 --> 00:19:21.839
If I want to go through a personal training um program, let's say, right?
00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:32.480
I can buy an app and I can subscribe to an app, and the apple will tell me, well, tomorrow is chess day, and next day is leg days, and this is how much how many records you need to do, right?
00:19:33.119 --> 00:19:35.759
Fixed price, fixed outcome, I know what to expect.
00:19:36.160 --> 00:19:45.920
But the perception about the value that I get from that app will never be the same as me working with a personal trainer.
00:19:46.559 --> 00:19:50.880
And I know that a personal trainer is not going to be about um outcome pays.
00:19:51.039 --> 00:19:58.720
I cannot really tell a personal trainer, I will I will pay you five thousand pounds and I want you to increase my strength, my bench press by 20%.
00:19:59.599 --> 00:19:59.839
Right?
00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:01.519
I know it doesn't work like that.
00:20:01.599 --> 00:20:02.640
I don't really want that.
00:20:03.440 --> 00:20:16.799
I want a personal trainer to have a personal relationship with me because eventually, throughout the weeks and the months, my needs will change, my habits will change, something might happen to me that means that I can't not do the squats anymore.
00:20:17.200 --> 00:20:20.799
And we still need to find a way to train my legs without doing squats.
00:20:21.920 --> 00:20:28.079
And I move back to a business example because businesses change and they won't have passed.
00:20:28.960 --> 00:20:51.440
And so when I speak to um a CFO who is about to embark into a series of acquisitions, emergers and acquisitions, and they have finance and operations, but he knows that how using business central for the subsidiaries will save him licenses using this hub as a poker model.
00:20:52.319 --> 00:21:09.039
Then we know that we have the setup and configuration and integration on the fixer price and the strategy on how to drive change management for the uh individual subsidiaries is going to be time and materials because I cannot package that as a server.
00:21:10.079 --> 00:21:25.279
And so having the two models going working together to address different needs and and it's different strategies to serve our clients, in my opinion, is uh the best uh is the best approach.
00:21:25.359 --> 00:21:38.960
And I don't believe that we have a uh any you know conflict or disagreement, Kristen, because it it's really about not one model is the one way forward and the other mother is model is obsolete and we need to get rid of it, right?
00:21:39.119 --> 00:21:44.880
Is what whichever works um for the organization and that's my take and that's my experience.
00:21:48.880 --> 00:21:49.200
Okay.
00:21:50.240 --> 00:21:57.039
Um I mean, one thing I want to say about the outcome, I mean, theoretically the subscription model is kind of on the way to outcome based.
00:21:57.119 --> 00:21:59.759
I mean, essentially that's really what you know it.
00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:01.200
It's ideal to reach.
00:22:01.359 --> 00:22:05.440
The problem is, I mean, maybe in training and maybe in narrow things, you can decl you.
00:22:05.680 --> 00:22:11.839
The problem is defining the outcome and attributing contribution, right?
00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:20.640
You know, arguably the best way you could sell something to someone, and I mean that works like let's say when you bring a machine into a manufacturing shop, right?
00:22:20.799 --> 00:22:25.200
If we bring this thing, it's gonna speed up production, and therefore this is the obvious ROI, right?
00:22:25.279 --> 00:22:29.119
It's easy, this is what I put in, this is what improved, right?
00:22:29.279 --> 00:22:34.000
When it comes to software, when it comes to at least our ERP world, it's all be fuzzy, right?
00:22:34.079 --> 00:22:44.400
So I mean if there was a way to actually be able to measure that and attribute it, then act honestly, that's really how you how one would want to actually price it, because then it's easy, you know.
00:22:44.559 --> 00:22:52.319
Um if you can do something that at the end of the day, you know, saves you a million dollars, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask$400,000 for that, right?
00:22:52.480 --> 00:22:55.839
You know, but I mean that's kind of the challenge there, right?
00:22:56.240 --> 00:22:58.720
Um, so I mean I think from that perspective, yeah.
00:22:58.799 --> 00:23:05.119
I mean, I I don't necessarily think we're different, it's just like it's just subscription is the best you could do as of right now, right?
00:23:05.279 --> 00:23:16.240
And I mean, yeah, I'm not I'm not necessarily against our I mean, no, actually, I am against hourly rate, but I mean like obviously if someone wants to do it, I found myself there are specific scenarios in which that works.
00:23:16.319 --> 00:23:26.720
I mean, interesting enough, last year when I was doing the marketing for my hourly rate is the.com, you know, I actually found myself arguing with website designers to actually work by the hour.
00:23:26.960 --> 00:23:39.519
But the reason I did that is because um, because I think that is the difference, usually you know, package stuff or other subscriptions, something like that, they try to narrow lock down a lot more what you get for it.
00:23:39.599 --> 00:23:49.200
So, like every website designer and every sort of person that I talked to, they were like, Well, don't worry about it, this is the fixed price, you get the website, four pages, this many edits, or whatever.
00:23:49.279 --> 00:23:52.640
And I'm like, Look, first of all, you know, I know what you gotta ask me.
00:23:52.720 --> 00:23:55.519
You gotta ask me in the beginning, because that's kind of the other problem, right?
00:23:55.759 --> 00:24:05.119
You know, they were like, You you gotta give me everything or that's gonna be on those pages, and you sort of tell me which layout, or I'm gonna share some, and you pick one, and then that's it.
00:24:05.200 --> 00:24:09.599
And I'm like, Well, I don't really have the time to put all four, and actually I work a lot better if I see it.
00:24:09.680 --> 00:24:14.880
So, how about we we get a schema and then you know I'll tell you what to fill in each of them?
00:24:15.039 --> 00:24:19.680
And I mean, I ended up basically sort of you know burning through about five or six of them.
00:24:19.839 --> 00:24:23.200
I ended up in paid disputes on upward.com with a whole bunch of them.
00:24:23.359 --> 00:24:25.279
My own principle, everything was like$300.
00:24:25.519 --> 00:24:28.559
So I mean it just it was the principle of the matter rather than anything else.
00:24:28.720 --> 00:24:39.519
But I mean, I think that's kind of the I think that's the other, you know, that's yes, if you want something completely specific where I was like, you just sit here and you listen to me, and there's no way we can ever limit it.
00:24:39.599 --> 00:24:41.039
But even in that case, you know, exactly.
00:24:41.119 --> 00:24:44.960
I mean, if someone was saying, okay, you're gonna get this much from me every month, that would be okay.
00:24:45.200 --> 00:24:56.960
Um, I mean, I think my problem with the way I got to hourly rate is dead, and the reason I do actually hate hourly is because I mean the way I got here is let's let's start with the simplest thing.
00:24:57.039 --> 00:24:59.119
Who decides what the hourly rate is?
00:24:59.440 --> 00:25:00.000
Right?
00:25:00.240 --> 00:25:02.400
Like, there's an hourly rate, fine.
00:25:02.480 --> 00:25:03.599
And there's a number, right?
00:25:03.680 --> 00:25:14.960
I mean, like um I forget to my surprise that I heard some people having some interesting rates in Denmark, so I don't really know Euro, but US, it can be anywhere between apparently right now, between 100 and 300, right?
00:25:15.359 --> 00:25:18.799
So who decides what the rowly rate is, right?
00:25:18.880 --> 00:25:21.519
Like how do you pick an hourly rate, for instance?
00:25:21.920 --> 00:25:26.000
I can give you an answer, and then that's a very good uh way to look at the hourly rate.
00:25:26.079 --> 00:25:38.240
First of all, um howly rates are common in um if you work with large partners, and that's it's essentially a cost management tool.
00:25:39.279 --> 00:26:02.880
Uh an organization that employs uh 50 uh consultants must work on a howly rate because they need to look at the chargeability so how many hours this consultant can work on something I can charge too much to my client as opposed to the total total number of hours that he or she uh works for my organization.
00:26:03.519 --> 00:26:12.000
And therefore it's essentially payroll as a cost of service, a cost of sales, uh as opposed to uh what I bill.
00:26:12.799 --> 00:26:15.759
And uh that there comes the time sheets and everything.
00:26:15.839 --> 00:26:28.400
It's an essential measurement uh for for the partners to see if uh the delivery uh is profitable in in a way, it's like managing your coastal sales when you sell merchandise.
00:26:29.119 --> 00:26:31.599
That comes, that's why we have the timesheets, right?
00:26:31.680 --> 00:26:33.759
And that's why it it's also an industrial standard.
00:26:34.480 --> 00:26:44.559
Um that though creates a limitation because what does the howli rates how it rates insertivi incentivize uh overpailing and inefficiency?
00:26:45.119 --> 00:26:48.559
And this is what clients are are getting and they're getting used to.
00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:58.160
They they get invoices and say, Well, why did a consultant say you charge me with four four hours of a consultant to change to review a bat statement?
00:26:58.720 --> 00:27:06.160
Well, I can ask Chat GPT to review my bank statement, and I can actually get someone like a junior in my team to get it in half an hour.
00:27:07.039 --> 00:27:12.559
Clients have already started challenging these habits, and it's a good thing.
00:27:13.359 --> 00:27:32.319
So but that doesn't mean that we need to completely abandon the time and material because then it could put for example I I don't charge my clients by the hour because uh when when I go um when I work on a project base, I have a certain number of days.
00:27:32.720 --> 00:27:36.160
So my day is that that that at that rate.
00:27:38.160 --> 00:27:42.640
But it you as a client are not going to question whether to spend three hours or an entire day.
00:27:43.359 --> 00:27:43.680
Right?
00:27:43.920 --> 00:27:48.079
But you know that in that day I'm going to solve that amount of problems for you.
00:27:48.400 --> 00:27:55.839
And if you work on outcome base, the number of days that I promise you I will complete that kind of job, right, is this.
00:27:56.880 --> 00:28:07.519
And so hourly rates are absolutely an issue, but it's also essential for an organization to track whether your consultants are actually, you know, working on it.
00:28:07.839 --> 00:28:09.599
For a small company, it's easier.
00:28:10.079 --> 00:28:10.319
Right?
00:28:10.400 --> 00:28:16.240
If you are a team of four or five like freelancers who work together, then it's okay.
00:28:16.640 --> 00:28:20.480
You spend five hours with something, and um next five hours you do something else.
00:28:20.640 --> 00:28:22.240
Maybe you work on the website, right?
00:28:22.720 --> 00:28:44.000
But if I have a team of 200 people, if I am Accenture, if I have your McKinsey, our rates are essential because before I know, right, uh the cost of delivery is out of hand, and for a small company, a team of 20 or 30 consultants, that measurement is essential.
00:28:44.240 --> 00:28:54.400
So that means that your entire operating model as a consulting firm must change before you can move away from our rates.
00:28:54.960 --> 00:28:58.880
Otherwise, you might run in blind and saying, I are we're really making money here or not.
00:28:59.519 --> 00:29:01.599
Yeah, that's uh that is an interesting.
00:29:01.680 --> 00:29:09.359
I I think I think a lot of this is forced uh is is is forced by AI services or AI tools.
00:29:10.079 --> 00:29:37.039
And I see a lot of the you know, small partners, medium, large partners that will have to eventually uh not necessarily change the entire operating to just be time and material, but they have to kind of ref have a uh uh reflect upon themselves like, okay, what are the areas that we do can be product to size or subscription or you know, fixed price.
00:29:37.279 --> 00:29:47.359
Because for, for example, if you're a small partner, for you to grow, and if you do it in a time and material, you grow by adding more people.
00:29:47.759 --> 00:29:51.119
Well, as we all know, hiring is tough.
00:29:51.279 --> 00:29:55.359
Uh and then they have to then be billable, like you had mentioned, Alfredo.
00:29:55.519 --> 00:30:00.640
It's it's it's um it's utilization of the hours that they spent.
00:30:00.880 --> 00:30:14.880
And and as we all know, a lot of the new clients moving into Business Central or in the Dynamics 365 ERP system, they are a bit smarter uh than ever before because of AI.
00:30:15.119 --> 00:30:21.920
So they're coming in prepared, and they're coming prepared in a sense where this is the outcome that I want.
00:30:22.559 --> 00:30:28.160
And so you're forced to like, okay, I can't really uh time and material some of those.
00:30:28.240 --> 00:30:29.200
I've seen those, right?
00:30:29.279 --> 00:30:30.799
You've been doing this for a long time.
00:30:31.039 --> 00:30:32.799
Yes, I've done that five times.
00:30:32.880 --> 00:30:33.839
I know what it takes.
00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:45.440
And so it becomes that, hey, I'm gonna find some average here of the typical time it takes, and I'm gonna go ahead and this is the price for that rather than nitpick of the hours.
00:30:45.680 --> 00:31:11.599
And and and I and I wrote this about a week ago, and I think Christian, you you had uh commented on it, is that if you have a time of material work of 10 hours, and because you're so efficient, you're so good, and you've done it before, and you did it in two hours, you're kind of shooting yourself on the foot of, you know, um sort of a pay cut of that time of material when you say, hey, it's gonna uh X amount of dollars.
00:31:11.839 --> 00:31:20.559
Whether you do it one hour or six hours, it doesn't really matter because the outcome uh you have the expected outcome.
00:31:20.880 --> 00:31:23.039
So it's a balance, but not every single one.
00:31:23.200 --> 00:31:28.240
So you may have to do like a hybrid as as you try to, as a partner, you gotta survive.
00:31:28.319 --> 00:31:29.200
How do you survive?
00:31:29.359 --> 00:31:35.759
Well, you might have to do a hybrid approach, whether you do a subscription or fixed price in some areas and so forth.
00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:36.880
But let me back.
00:31:40.559 --> 00:31:46.559
Hybrid models are becoming more and more prevalent, particularly with large partners.
00:31:47.039 --> 00:31:56.480
And I get this data from Gartner, but also from uh a guy who's doing um who does independent ERP advisory, Eric Kimberlyn, I believe.
00:31:56.559 --> 00:31:59.839
He's and he leads a company called the Third Stage Consulting.
00:32:00.079 --> 00:32:03.839
And they are a technology, vendor agnostic ERP advisors.
00:32:04.160 --> 00:32:16.000
And they often work with large partners, they don't work with small companies, they don't do dynamics, app, um, oracle, and they often work with Accenture, the kind of you know, large companies.
00:32:16.400 --> 00:32:31.519
And I happened to work with one of these large companies for a couple of years uh before because they tried um they started a business center practice, and I helped them on in the early days, and then they decided that that model wasn't working for them.
00:32:31.920 --> 00:32:40.559
And I got the unique insight about how company large companies like um Accenture, for example, already uh works on um hybrid models.
00:32:40.799 --> 00:32:49.680
They have this models, so part of the implementation is time and materials, and typically is the the strategy, the pre-sales, right?
00:32:49.759 --> 00:32:53.680
Uh success by design, Microsoft successful design called it the strategy part, right?
00:32:53.759 --> 00:33:13.039
When we strategize and because there is so many, uh there are so many things that are unknown is the time of materials, then it comes the the part when we define the statement of work and that is of heaven fixed price, or I mean quoted based on the number of hours, right?
00:33:13.200 --> 00:33:15.039
But still the number of hours still matters.
00:33:16.079 --> 00:33:28.480
Now, in some cases, companies like uh Avanart, and I'm not saying anything you know confidential because it's part of their methodology that comes from uh, you know, Avonart was a larger part, right?
00:33:28.559 --> 00:33:31.599
Part Accenture, part Microsoft owned by them, right?
00:33:32.079 --> 00:33:34.400
They have two separate methodologies.
00:33:34.880 --> 00:33:39.119
So two different strategies to address two different types of challenges.
00:33:39.680 --> 00:33:44.720
One is called product base, and the other is um client-based.
00:33:44.880 --> 00:33:54.559
So a product base is for companies that have an outcome-based need, which is urgent, and they have a fixed budget.
00:33:55.039 --> 00:33:59.200
And so, for example, um, we're going through an acquisition.
00:33:59.279 --> 00:34:11.119
Uh, we need to comply with US GAAP uh because a US company is buying our assets and we work in a highly regulated environment with asset management, financials, legals.
00:34:12.719 --> 00:34:13.679
What's the urgency?
00:34:14.079 --> 00:34:16.159
If we don't get a new system, we'll break compliance.
00:34:16.320 --> 00:34:20.239
If we break compliance, our stock shares and stakeholders, and then we are in trouble.
00:34:21.840 --> 00:34:24.880
That means and we have a limited budget.
00:34:25.679 --> 00:34:51.920
Companies are like that and say, you know what, I'll give you a fixed price for the entire implementation, but you need to follow everything we tell you, and these are the features that you will get, and if your team uses different processes, you will be responsible for the change of management and adapted changes of our software because our software complies with your standards.
00:34:52.239 --> 00:34:53.920
So legally, you'll be fine.
00:34:54.960 --> 00:35:01.760
These are the fast track, fixed price, fixed budget implementation, and it works all the time.
00:35:02.480 --> 00:35:10.559
The second is customer century, uh company first, it's a completely uh basic poke advisory.
00:35:10.880 --> 00:35:12.800
It's more agile than waterfall.
00:35:13.519 --> 00:35:20.000
It's always a time and materials because the pro the and the end result is unpredictable by definition.
00:35:20.719 --> 00:35:21.119
Right?
00:35:21.679 --> 00:35:25.199
And and so they might have some fixed prices for their licenses.
00:35:25.280 --> 00:35:31.280
For example, if you have an IP in on intellectual property, Power BI, right?
00:35:31.599 --> 00:35:41.920
So we understand that you have business central and general manager in scope, and you have 20 legal entities, and you want a consolidated trial balance in Power BI.
00:35:42.480 --> 00:35:43.039
We got that.
00:35:43.519 --> 00:35:45.199
It's our IP, right?
00:35:45.280 --> 00:35:49.679
It's 10,000 pounds and 500 a month to maintain it.
00:35:50.400 --> 00:35:50.719
Right?
00:35:50.800 --> 00:35:53.440
But the rest is pretty much time and materials, right?
00:35:54.000 --> 00:35:59.039
So big companies like that already do that and they see that as as a as a benefit.
00:36:07.599 --> 00:36:14.320
Like business central partners that are operating globally, and we know where there are few of them, probably you know, five or ten, no many.
00:36:15.760 --> 00:36:20.000
They started to adopt this hybrid model very successfully.
00:36:20.800 --> 00:36:27.760
But you know the problem is that we live in a small medium enterprise world and where things change all the time, right?
00:36:27.920 --> 00:36:32.880
And sometimes we we speak with a founder of a small company, and you know what?
00:36:33.199 --> 00:36:34.320
I know exactly what I mean.
00:36:34.719 --> 00:36:48.320
We but we all know the challenges of dealing with a business transformation you know effort with the founder of the company because the budget is the money that he or she set aside, you know, after spending 20 years of working with the organization.
00:36:48.880 --> 00:36:54.960
Um that's that's the embedded the element of you know working you know with the small and medium enterprises.
00:36:55.440 --> 00:37:02.800
Uh but um sorry for this you know long um you know uh say uh uh spending too much time here.
00:37:03.039 --> 00:37:14.239
I want just wanted to confirm that the hybrid model is absolutely the future and it's been already uh used by large partners very successfully.
00:37:14.400 --> 00:37:18.079
We just need to adapt it and bring it to the small and medium enterprise world.
00:37:25.440 --> 00:37:26.559
Where do I start?
00:37:26.800 --> 00:37:37.440
Well, see, I think the difference is that all the examples you said, Alfredo, they're not really, in my opinion, they're not still not the spirit of what I'm talking about with the fixed price and you know subscription.
00:37:37.679 --> 00:37:48.719
So first of all, even fixed price, like if we do fixed price implementations and I'm about to start one next week, and I've already done one like this, you know, we go to the client and say, This is the budget, and we think we can do it this many months.
00:37:48.880 --> 00:37:53.199
In this case, there's a budget, there's five months that we committed that we're gonna go them live in that.
00:37:53.440 --> 00:37:57.599
If we take if we go live in three months, basically they still pass for the other two months.
00:37:57.840 --> 00:38:01.599
If we go live after the five months, then we keep working for free until then.
00:38:02.000 --> 00:38:06.000
And mainly because I hate time sheets, maybe that's just me, right?
00:38:06.079 --> 00:38:08.159
But essentially, we did a discovery for a week.
00:38:08.320 --> 00:38:15.440
We because I know the industry to a certain extent, uh, essentially we did the discovery on the you know, well, for a week talking to the team.
00:38:15.599 --> 00:38:22.639
But I mean everything was just him going like, oh yeah, we have a warehouse down in Washington, and basically we need to support that.
00:38:22.800 --> 00:38:23.679
Oh yeah, we have this.
00:38:23.840 --> 00:38:26.480
Granted, I know a lot of the stuff that they do in the industry, right?
00:38:26.639 --> 00:38:28.400
That's the spec, okay?
00:38:28.559 --> 00:38:32.960
And I didn't spend money, I didn't spend any money on that, I didn't do any of that kind of stuff.
00:38:33.039 --> 00:38:44.400
There's a difference between, of course, yeah, sure, you know, like I mean, essentially you can sort of you know do all the little, you know, what is the uh the small print in terms of doing, right?
00:38:44.639 --> 00:38:54.800
But I mean, I think what it's an interesting thing in everything the the substrate here, it's interesting how everything is from the per from the perspective of the partner, but it's not from the perspective of the customer.
00:38:54.960 --> 00:38:57.840
Because I mean there was a reason I asked about who decides the early rate, right?
00:38:58.000 --> 00:38:59.840
I mean, here's the thing it's an SMB company.
00:38:59.920 --> 00:39:04.079
Most of the time, a team of one, two or three people will be able to do an implementation.
00:39:04.320 --> 00:39:13.199
So, you know, a partner that charges$300 uh dollars an hour or someone that charges$100 an hour, a lot of times could be delivering the same value, right?
00:39:13.360 --> 00:39:19.760
Yes, you're right about the fact that the partner has a reason to charge the 300 because they have a lot more overhead, right?
00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:24.320
And then also, frankly, they charge that because they invest a lot more on the marketing.
00:39:24.400 --> 00:39:30.719
I mean, it's there's a difference between uh what is the store brand, I think whatever, you know what is it?
00:39:30.880 --> 00:39:35.440
Uh generic versus yeah, Ibuprofile versus Advil and all that kind of stuff, right?
00:39:35.679 --> 00:39:46.320
So, I mean, we know the we know the economics of how you sort of maybe go to that, uh, but then essentially at the end of the day, that doesn't take into consideration what is good for the customer, in my opinion, right?
00:39:46.480 --> 00:39:48.480
Like for the customer, that that shouldn't really matter.
00:39:48.559 --> 00:39:50.800
And I mean, to a certain extent it does, right?
00:39:50.960 --> 00:39:58.239
I don't think anybody's ever gone and said, hey man, I gotta charge you, you know, a thousand dollars an hour because I gotta pay my people, right?
00:39:58.400 --> 00:40:01.039
I mean, if you know, as ultimately there is a message.
00:40:01.280 --> 00:40:20.960
Um, the stuff that I've been taught, and I mean, part of the reason why I am I feel like in I need to be strident about the whole thing with uh, you know, and Stephen the name of the website is that when I've gone to marketing people, and you know, part of this thing is you get a guarantee in terms of like kind of how much you're gonna get billed, what you get in terms of services depending if you go with a fixed price.
00:40:21.119 --> 00:40:35.199
A lot of marketing people, like companies over 10 million dollars, don't make a decision based on basic cost-benefit analysis and everything else, they make a decision based on uh essentially you know what is the lowest risk.
00:40:35.360 --> 00:40:37.119
If they if it goes wrong, the project.
00:40:37.360 --> 00:40:42.960
Well, no, but the lower risk C, when you say that people think okay, that means low risk means whoever can do the best work.
00:40:43.039 --> 00:40:49.840
No, I mean a lot of times is lowest risk means if it goes wrong, can I explain to my bosses without losing my job?
00:40:50.079 --> 00:40:58.000
And I mean, the problem is the perception seems to be, I mean, I don't I don't like the answer because basically that just means there's no space for people like us here, right?
00:40:58.159 --> 00:41:04.400
You know, if I don't want to be a company of whatever how many, you know, Western, Velacio, ArcherPoint have, right?
00:41:04.559 --> 00:41:06.400
Then that means theoretically there's no space for me.
00:41:06.480 --> 00:41:09.039
I know there is a space for me because I've been around for 20 years.
00:41:09.199 --> 00:41:11.519
But I mean, like that's kind of the idea, right?
00:41:11.679 --> 00:41:21.440
Um, at the end of the day, if you make a decision based on that, then you know what, maybe I don't want you as a customer because I, you know, then you're paying for that's the other thing.
00:41:21.519 --> 00:41:23.599
You're not paying for an insurance, because that would be the other thing.
00:41:23.760 --> 00:41:27.199
Like if you pay for an insurance, hey, if he goes over whatever something, that's another thing.
00:41:27.280 --> 00:41:35.119
But you're just paying for the perception of being able to make that decision, either that or just simply whatever, you know, you buy the salesperson and anything else.
00:41:35.280 --> 00:41:38.719
So to me, it's more of change.
00:41:38.880 --> 00:41:46.960
I am looking at I am starting and I am looking very hard from what is really good for the customer, right?
00:41:47.119 --> 00:41:52.800
You know, what are I mean, if you look on LinkedIn, what are the most what are the most common complaints the customers have?
00:41:52.960 --> 00:42:03.599
You know, project didn't succeed or it wasn't what they expected, they got overbuilt for it, you know, things like that, or you know, basically they didn't get what they expected.
00:42:03.760 --> 00:42:11.199
I mean, those are I mean, this is not me saying this, this is exactly what you know, and every thought leader on LinkedIn tells you how you can avoid those things, right?
00:42:11.280 --> 00:42:12.320
And I mean, fair enough.
00:42:12.480 --> 00:42:15.440
You can argue about how you get to them, but that's kind of the idea, you know.
00:42:15.599 --> 00:42:26.079
The point of how you you um how I got to this is both the fact that I find that I know I'm you know I'm just as good and sometimes better than a lot of the people that are out there from the bigger partners.
00:42:26.159 --> 00:42:32.159
So therefore, sure, yeah, if you're a big company that needs a hundred people, there's a value in that, and not everybody can deploy that.
00:42:32.239 --> 00:42:36.639
And in that case, you can argue for you need to support the cost of you know my staff.
00:42:36.800 --> 00:42:41.119
But I mean, like for the SB world, it's just what can you deliver, right?
00:42:41.280 --> 00:42:50.320
Um, and in that case, hourly rate is not a good measure by any stretch of the imagination because it doesn't say anything, it's an arbitrary number based on how much you can build, right?
00:42:50.639 --> 00:42:57.519
Um, I mean, you know, Christopher, you know, going back to the AI, I think that kind of puts it in more focus now because that is that point too.
00:42:57.599 --> 00:42:57.840
Yes.
00:42:57.920 --> 00:43:10.719
I mean, like, you know, we all probably silently or not so silently working on you know the whole agents for the development and everything, then all of a sudden, you know, the mods are two hours instead of 20 hours, right?
00:43:10.800 --> 00:43:12.079
You know, something like that, right?
00:43:12.320 --> 00:43:13.760
So, yeah, it is a question.
00:43:13.840 --> 00:43:23.519
I mean, I'm not really sure what the right answer on that one is, but you know, the reality is that ultimately someone that's hungry will build two hours for that 20 hours, right?
00:43:23.840 --> 00:43:31.840
So therefore, you know, my opinion is you might as well, or otherwise you change the pre, you know, you change the sort of concept the other way around.
00:43:32.000 --> 00:43:35.840
You know, you basically what am I delivering the way I'm delivering it?
00:43:36.000 --> 00:43:39.039
And I mean, you know, you stop talking about the cost of it, right?
00:43:39.199 --> 00:43:44.159
Essentially, because I don't know, you know, there's a lot of other variables around that stuff.
00:43:44.239 --> 00:43:54.000
So, I mean, I think I think that's kind of why the subscription here it's more of just generally what will the customer sort of you know buy, you know, pay for.
00:43:54.079 --> 00:43:59.119
And here's the thing the AI also will be they can do a lot of the stuff themselves, right?
00:43:59.199 --> 00:44:10.239
I mean, if If anything, I mean I've been reading debates on the legal, you know, industry where basically you have like this big company called Harvey AI that is kind of like apparently kind of taking over the low-level work, right?
00:44:10.400 --> 00:44:16.400
You know, the you may I mean to the you know, I'll further to your point of like uh um what's the word hybrid stuff, right?
00:44:16.559 --> 00:44:24.480
I mean, I think it's gonna become to either you self-service to AI or someone that can kind of surface the AI for you, but I still believe it would be subscription.
00:44:24.639 --> 00:44:36.000
And then what will be left is you know, think about it, if you're a litigation lawyer that has to go to court, that's probably not possible to do that, which is maybe Alfredo, you're talking about the strategy part at the beginning.
00:44:36.239 --> 00:44:49.920
I I actually see those lawyers that maybe charge now five to a thousand dollars an hour, they probably will end up charging five thousand dollars an hour, mainly because they you will only need them a fifth of the time they used to, right?
00:44:50.159 --> 00:44:53.199
You know, so like I think that's kind of the idea.
00:44:53.280 --> 00:45:02.559
The hourly rate is gonna become maybe the outlier, you know, in a lot of things, and then everything else is gonna have to be how fast can you deliver it there, you know?
00:45:02.800 --> 00:45:06.480
And I mean, I think you know, on the eye side, but that's another conversation.
00:45:06.719 --> 00:45:14.239
Who can find the cheapest token cost to get there, also, you know, because that seems to be a thing, you know, sort of ignored in those conversations.
00:45:14.480 --> 00:45:15.599
I think that's very difficult.
00:45:16.000 --> 00:45:16.400
Sorry, go ahead.
00:45:16.559 --> 00:45:29.679
You want to interrupt yeah, you you know, you made it, you you called out something that's very um uh, I think it's very important um as a partner, as I think all of us are in the the partner side of things, right?
00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:34.400
Is that when you are building your hybrid model, right?
00:45:34.719 --> 00:45:40.639
Whether fixed price or subscription, you also have to consider who fits in that.
00:45:40.800 --> 00:45:45.440
And and Christian, you had said, maybe you're not my customer, and that's okay, right?
00:45:45.599 --> 00:45:46.400
That is okay.
00:45:46.559 --> 00:45:56.159
If they're not a fit for you because you can't, you don't have the capacity, or you it's just not um maybe it's a higher risk client, you don't take that on.
00:45:56.239 --> 00:45:59.440
You take on the ones that are maybe that fits your model.
00:45:59.679 --> 00:46:05.119
In this case, many SMBs do, because a lot of times they come in, I have a budget.
00:46:05.280 --> 00:46:06.880
Here's what I can spend.
00:46:07.039 --> 00:46:08.159
And so it's much easier.
00:46:08.239 --> 00:46:15.679
Now, if you do a time of material, it it it kind of um scares a lot of them off because it's like, okay, it's gonna be up and down, is it gonna be more?
00:46:15.760 --> 00:46:16.480
Is it gonna be less?
00:46:16.559 --> 00:46:17.920
I mean, that's a risk that they have to take.
00:46:18.000 --> 00:46:29.280
But if they have a budget, like uh I I think another common thing that um that you guys may get asked, I I certainly get asked from time to time, is that what happens after go live, right?
00:46:29.360 --> 00:46:30.639
Someone's gonna help me maintain.
00:46:30.719 --> 00:46:39.039
So you may have some sort of subscription in that case to like, hey, I can help you maintain, you get whatever, um, uh moving forward.
00:46:39.199 --> 00:46:41.119
Because that's also a common thing, right?
00:46:41.199 --> 00:46:45.920
Once they go live, a big partner may have taken them live, and it's like, I haven't heard from them.
00:46:46.320 --> 00:46:50.400
Uh, because yeah, you're not a project base anymore, you're not time and material, you know.
00:46:50.559 --> 00:46:53.199
Uh uh, you're just reaching out from time to time.
00:46:53.360 --> 00:47:01.039
So things to consider, and I think you made a a big call out there, Christian, is that it's okay if they're not the right the right client for you.
00:47:03.360 --> 00:47:04.559
But it's a positioning, right?
00:47:04.639 --> 00:47:05.440
It's a strategy.
00:47:05.599 --> 00:47:20.960
So um we uh I I think we we correctly identify a key driver of the right um or what drives the right billing cycle, which is essentially a strategic decision to acquire new customers, right?
00:47:21.280 --> 00:47:23.920
Um is the client a ri a good fit for me?
00:47:24.320 --> 00:47:46.719
Um clients that expect a packaged service, right, and they um and they are risk adverse and therefore they want that uh particular uh you know job to be completed in a certain time and under certain budget might actually not be the right uh you know clients for you uh depending on how you deliver.
00:47:46.960 --> 00:48:00.079
And a small and medium enterprise that goes through frequent changes might actually be a pain right to service on a fixed price because you start with something and then scope creep happens all the time.
00:48:00.880 --> 00:48:11.360
Someone you know the the CFO changes, and then we have a new warehouse manager who wants to um change the way the warehouse works, but they expect everything to be done in a certain way.
00:48:11.519 --> 00:48:16.159
Your cost to deliver um will eventually have an impact.
00:48:16.320 --> 00:48:22.719
If you deliver it, if you are a freelancer or a small team, you know, and and are being there.
00:48:22.880 --> 00:48:24.079
What's the common tendency?
00:48:24.239 --> 00:48:25.199
Well, I'll do it for you.
00:48:25.360 --> 00:48:28.320
And my project managers, well, fellow, we don't really have the budget for that.
00:48:28.400 --> 00:48:36.480
Okay, I'll spend an extra two hours and I will not put you know uh a timesheet through because I just want to please my customer.
00:48:36.719 --> 00:48:39.280
And and that happens in our world all the time.
00:48:39.440 --> 00:48:55.519
And if you measure over a year, you will find out most small partners with less than 20 or 30 consultants end up uh working more but they don't actually you know charge the clients because, well, actually, we don't have a budget for that.
00:48:55.599 --> 00:48:56.800
Can you please do it this time?
00:48:57.199 --> 00:49:05.360
And I was going through an analysis when I started when I worked for the last partner before I ended up working full-time for the 365 training.
00:49:06.000 --> 00:49:17.440
And I made an estimate that the team of 35 consultants averaged a 20% um essentially burnout, so overwork.
00:49:18.480 --> 00:49:25.360
So 20% constantly every 10 hours, two hours with free of charge.
00:49:25.760 --> 00:49:30.400
And that's because project manager, we don't want a budget and because we want to please the customer, right?
00:49:30.880 --> 00:49:39.679
And so fixed price can work for the customers, and then what drives the hourly rate if you really want on want to work an hour late, right?
00:49:40.239 --> 00:50:00.559
Your ability to deliver value for money, which is absolutely we will get uh to a point where a consultant can charge two thousand dollars per hour because we can deliver what uh ten years would take, three years ago would take a week in half an hour.
00:50:01.280 --> 00:50:06.639
And so, like lawyers divorced lawyers of celebrities, right?
00:50:06.800 --> 00:50:12.400
Or Hollywood personal trainers and why do they uh why are they so expensive?
00:50:12.559 --> 00:50:21.760
Because they brand their position, their expertise, their social proof, right, hotel they can deliver, right?
00:50:21.840 --> 00:50:33.920
If that personal training can get that actor to be fit for the next um you know superhero movie, right, chances are if I work with him, I will always you know also get in shape.
00:50:34.320 --> 00:50:37.199
Of course, we don't know that it's not true, but it's a perception.
00:50:37.360 --> 00:50:42.639
So how do you rate is cost of sales, cost of deliver, but also your branding.
00:50:43.119 --> 00:50:50.639
And so it's about your marketing, your sales, and as Kristen said, your ability to convey that message at lower risk.
00:50:51.360 --> 00:51:01.119
If something goes wrong, we have enough you know to support you, which will not bankrupt us.
00:51:01.440 --> 00:51:01.679
Right?
00:51:01.840 --> 00:51:06.320
And so think about that legal um uh SAP failed implementation.
00:51:06.400 --> 00:51:07.920
Was it last year, a couple of years ago?
00:51:08.559 --> 00:51:27.119
Um, if you search about legal failed SAP implementation, a little I I I believe it was the US branch that went through a SAP implementation and they end up spending I don't know fifty million dollars on development before the CEO said we're going nowhere to stop working, right?
00:51:27.920 --> 00:51:30.800
And so what happens on that stage?
00:51:33.119 --> 00:51:34.159
Would you just fire us?
00:51:34.480 --> 00:51:34.639
Right?
00:51:34.800 --> 00:51:35.679
We don't work anymore.
00:51:36.000 --> 00:51:41.599
So hold on a moment, if you just make me spend fifty million on something that we're going nowhere, I'll take you to court.
00:51:41.840 --> 00:51:45.360
And so risk risk is uh is an element.
00:51:45.440 --> 00:51:54.719
So as a CEO who needs to spend a hundred million uh dollars on a SAP or Oracle dynamics implementation, maybe dynamics is not gonna get there eventually.
00:51:54.800 --> 00:51:56.719
But again, let's say SAP implementation.
00:51:58.079 --> 00:52:07.679
I want a partner who's got experience, improving experience uh in in uh multimillion dollar implementation.
00:52:07.760 --> 00:52:18.719
So a likelihood to succeed, but also want a partner who if they fail, I can go to my board of directors and say, Well, there was a chance that we failed, they failed.
00:52:19.119 --> 00:52:20.079
What's the contingency?
00:52:20.239 --> 00:52:21.360
We're taking them to court.
00:52:21.599 --> 00:52:29.679
How much money we could we we can make by um if we win this lawsuit enough to recall that it's a big company and they have cash in the bank.
00:52:30.480 --> 00:52:36.639
And that also what drives the order how they rate, because that reduces the risk of failure, right?
00:52:36.719 --> 00:52:57.119
And so, but that is brand and his position is not about our ability to deliver because what's the difference between a saber consultant who works for, I don't know, McKinsey and a manufacturing manager who works for Business Central with 20 years of experience in the shop floor and technical skills.
00:52:57.760 --> 00:53:00.559
I mean manufacturing is manufacturing, right?
00:53:00.960 --> 00:53:04.480
The the the the rate the day the rate cannot be that different, right?
00:53:04.719 --> 00:53:12.320
Manufacturing consultant making 80k a year and then a manufacturing consultant for McKinsey cannot make 800k a year, right?
00:53:12.480 --> 00:53:26.880
Isn't thinking so it's our ability eventually, a skills plateau right, gets to a point where everything around us, our company, our the brand, the marketing, right, the history, the brand, right?
00:53:26.960 --> 00:53:35.599
The logo, some company spent you know hundreds of thousands of pounds for a logo, and whether we like it or not, and I'm a supply chain guy, I don't understand marketing.
00:53:36.159 --> 00:53:42.079
I don't understand how a company can spend half a million dollars on a logo and all of a sudden their shares go up.
00:53:42.239 --> 00:53:44.719
To me, it's it's a sign that the world is going mad.
00:53:44.960 --> 00:53:48.880
But apparently that works, and so we need to accept that that's how it works.
00:53:49.199 --> 00:53:53.360
It's a luxury, people willing to pay luxury exactly for that.
00:53:53.519 --> 00:53:54.719
So luxury, yeah.
00:53:54.800 --> 00:54:02.320
And then just to go back to the SB discussion, um, you know, versus the enterprise, you know, I I had to look it look this up.
00:54:02.480 --> 00:54:11.760
Just you know, just on the US alone, it it says that 99.9% of businesses are all SBs where they have employees that is less than 500.
00:54:12.079 --> 00:54:19.280
So talking about where does your fixed price subscription uh model fits, Christian.
00:54:19.440 --> 00:54:22.239
I mean, that's practically everybody, right?
00:54:22.400 --> 00:54:24.320
So um you think about that.
00:54:24.400 --> 00:54:37.440
It's like it's it's really rare that you can have someone that's a thousand people using, and that's maybe that's when you have larger projects where you maybe consider the uh time and material because there's a lot of variables at that point.
00:54:37.679 --> 00:54:44.960
But I think I mean one thing that I want to say, I mean, I think you guys misunderstood when I said that's not a customer that fits me.
00:54:45.280 --> 00:54:48.000
I don't, well, I mean, I tried.
00:54:48.239 --> 00:55:00.639
I don't I cannot compete with someone that wants to buy IBM, you know, like there was Latin America at the beginning when they're trying to, I met some people that are trying to sell business central was saying the hardest big problem was nobody knew who business central was at the beginning, right?
00:55:00.800 --> 00:55:05.280
And they're like we have this philosophy of nobody got fired for half you know for hiring IBM, right?
00:55:05.440 --> 00:55:09.760
You know, and IBM was making ERP at the time in Latin America for it.
00:55:09.840 --> 00:55:17.840
So to me, I think the idea is I'm not gonna, I'm not willing, I don't have the money, nor the interest of spending the money that everybody else spends on marketing.
00:55:17.920 --> 00:55:22.880
I mean, like, think about it Burke bag, a regular bag they buy from Target, they both carry the same thing, right?
00:55:22.960 --> 00:55:25.280
You can have the Lamborghini, whatever, it's the same thing, right?
00:55:25.760 --> 00:55:28.159
It might be less practical if you want to go to the market.
00:55:28.320 --> 00:55:30.079
So to me, that's kind of the idea.
00:55:30.159 --> 00:55:32.800
You know, I want to find the customers that want to get stuff done.
00:55:33.039 --> 00:55:40.639
And I think that's gonna become a bigger and bigger, you know, sort of pro, you know, sort of uh uh part of the market, right?
00:55:40.880 --> 00:55:49.519
You know, reality is if we were contractors, we you know, we all of us would actually be millionaires if we could do the same budgets.
00:55:49.599 --> 00:55:49.840
Why?
00:55:50.000 --> 00:55:56.960
Because if it's your own house, you care about you know who who comes and does the work and it is your own money.
00:55:57.119 --> 00:56:10.800
I think the reality is the incentive that you know in a lot of companies are more political, it's not your own money, and you worry about more what happens for your position than whether this is the right person and the right service and everything else.
00:56:10.960 --> 00:56:17.280
But I mean, I think I think one of the you know, I and I put this in some comments on LinkedIn, you know, some of the things that we posted.
00:56:17.440 --> 00:56:41.599
I think one of the frustrating things to me to see, at least maybe maybe maybe you guys are just not as vocal as I am in my head, but considering the size of SMB companies of 10 up to 50 million, and we see a couple of people, why isn't everybody looking at AI and saying, you know, instead of wondering because I can do something in 20 hours in two hours, and everything, you know, all these other things that can be done, quote unquote AI, which I'm still not 100% convinced of it.
00:56:41.920 --> 00:56:47.280
Why isn't everybody thinking that okay, now I can compete with Archer Point and Velassi and everybody else, right?
00:56:47.519 --> 00:57:00.559
I mean, yes, you know, Vela, then at that point, if they can field enough teams of the same quality as you by yourself, or you and a couple of other people that you know, sure they can do more projects, but then it's a very linear situation, right?
00:57:00.800 --> 00:57:07.119
Right now, customers are starting projects by going to Microsoft and being funneled to whoever buys the most licenses, right?
00:57:07.280 --> 00:57:15.519
But I mean, I think take it as much as this is my opinion, as much as I feel trying to change the playing field, right?
00:57:15.679 --> 00:57:22.719
At the end of the day, if customers were looking at getting stuff done rather than hey, Microsoft recommended, hey, I saw them everywhere, so they must be good.
00:57:22.880 --> 00:57:25.199
Hey, I saw them on the Golf channel, they must be good.
00:57:25.360 --> 00:57:26.559
Salesforce, right?
00:57:26.719 --> 00:57:30.480
You know, at the end of the day, I mean, like basically then that's a different story.
00:57:30.559 --> 00:57:37.679
If they were going for actual results, call it whatever you want, doesn't have to be subscription, that's a fixed price with the outcome base, whatever you want to call it.
00:57:37.840 --> 00:57:49.519
You know, I mean, I think at the end of the day, you know, I mean, I I I see this in on the Silicon Valley stuff, like you know, on the West Coast, you follow the blogs, and there's companies that have you know 10-20 million ARR, right?
00:57:49.599 --> 00:57:52.079
And essentially they are like three, four people, right?
00:57:52.320 --> 00:57:58.239
You know, so the question is, you know, why not look at this and say, hey, you know, we can do the same thing.
00:57:58.320 --> 00:58:03.280
I mean, we don't need you don't necessarily need the same level of marketing, the same level of everything else.
00:58:03.440 --> 00:58:05.920
You don't need all that support to deliver this stuff, right?
00:58:06.079 --> 00:58:21.599
The problem, the biggest problem to me right now is the inertia legacy or old-fashionedness of our world in terms of hey, you know, wherever we know and whatever we we heard most, it's the it's the lesser risk, right?
00:58:21.760 --> 00:58:25.039
But I mean, I feel even for those companies, ultimately, this is what they're talking about.
00:58:25.119 --> 00:58:34.239
Like, if you're adapting, and it doesn't have to be AI, to me, if you adapt to anything that uh, you know, companies not an ERP definitely wouldn't compete with a company with ERP today, right?
00:58:34.480 --> 00:58:40.639
So, you know, even the customers need to feel the pressure of you need to be as efficient as you can be, right?
00:58:41.199 --> 00:58:42.960
So to me, that's the idea, you know.
00:58:43.039 --> 00:58:54.000
Yes, incentivize efficiency because you right now, if because of AI, you're you're you're penalizing everyone else, or even yourself, because you're so efficient with your job.
00:58:54.159 --> 00:58:55.679
So why are you being penalized?
00:58:55.840 --> 00:58:57.840
Oh, you gotta sell the hours, you know.
00:58:57.920 --> 00:59:01.599
That that's that's the uh uh the old school mentality, right?
00:59:01.679 --> 00:59:03.840
And the consulting space is that uh that time.
00:59:04.079 --> 00:59:07.440
That how much time you spend is what you're being graded upon.
00:59:07.599 --> 00:59:09.599
It should be efficiency.
00:59:10.559 --> 00:59:13.280
There's a lot more to that whole discussion.
00:59:13.360 --> 00:59:22.159
I kind of just uh wanted to hear everybody's thoughts on the the the the what you call subscription fixed price versus hourly.
00:59:22.239 --> 00:59:30.159
I I do think there's a mix, but the efficiency point of view, I I think it all comes back down to the value.
00:59:30.719 --> 00:59:33.599
There's value to somebody for something.
00:59:34.239 --> 00:59:38.159
And uh I I go back and forth on my thoughts on this.
00:59:38.320 --> 00:59:39.760
Alfredo, it's what you're talking about.
00:59:40.320 --> 00:59:48.000
And Christy, you had mentioned that you can charge$5,000 per hour for an a lawyer because of the credibility, or for the trainer because of the branding.
00:59:48.159 --> 00:59:49.360
That's great.
00:59:49.679 --> 00:59:53.760
But I mean, that that is great, and that's it may be possible in some cases, right?
00:59:53.840 --> 00:59:55.519
I'm not going to discount that.
00:59:55.840 --> 00:59:58.000
But everything has a value.
00:59:58.320 --> 01:00:03.119
And what is the value of something to whomever's consuming it?
01:00:03.360 --> 01:00:03.679
Right?
01:00:03.840 --> 01:00:09.519
I and it's it's not even and value sometimes is individualistic.
01:00:09.760 --> 01:00:14.159
It is worth this to me for this, whatever that may be.
01:00:14.320 --> 01:00:28.000
So there is there is a space for the time and and materials type thing, because there are some things that you really can't quantify because they're uh again, personal training, for example, my take on this.
01:00:28.320 --> 01:00:33.039
You can't say that it's only going to take an hour for me to get you to look like a star for the show.
01:00:33.199 --> 01:00:35.440
Therefore, it may have additional time.
01:00:35.599 --> 01:00:39.119
But there's other things where uh I want a deck built for my house.
01:00:39.280 --> 01:00:40.880
Christy, we spoke about this last time.
01:00:41.039 --> 01:00:42.960
That deck's worth$2,000 to me.
01:00:43.119 --> 01:00:47.360
I don't want it to be$17,000 because then I wouldn't have it because it's not worth it to me.
01:00:47.519 --> 01:00:50.159
Now, Chris, you're talking about the efficiency.
01:00:50.800 --> 01:00:57.440
Uh when they first invented the computer, the personal computer, they were really expensive.
01:00:57.679 --> 01:00:58.000
Right?
01:00:58.159 --> 01:00:59.360
And I even remember RAM.
01:00:59.519 --> 01:01:05.599
I bought a four meg of RAM chip for$200 or some nonsense early on.
01:01:05.840 --> 01:01:09.760
Now you can buy$256 gig for$4, right?
01:01:09.840 --> 01:01:11.199
Not necessarily today.
01:01:11.440 --> 01:01:22.320
So just because you charge something for a certain point, because we became more efficient in delivering it, doesn't mean it has and holds the same value, right?
01:01:22.480 --> 01:01:30.079
So it's if you want to say that AI is going to quantify and the cost should still stay the same, goes with what Alfredo is saying.
01:01:30.159 --> 01:01:32.320
Like there's so many mixes to what everybody's saying.
01:01:32.480 --> 01:01:37.440
It's you have the cost of delivery, your cost of delivery goes down, right?
01:01:37.599 --> 01:01:38.239
Theoretically.
01:01:38.400 --> 01:01:43.039
Now you have individuals that you have to pay and stuff, but if you have that efficiency, your cost of delivery goes down.
01:01:43.199 --> 01:01:45.039
So what do you do with that efficiency?
01:01:45.199 --> 01:01:47.599
Do you charge as if the cost of delivery was still high?
01:01:47.760 --> 01:01:50.159
Or do you do you adjust it for that delivery?
01:01:50.400 --> 01:01:54.800
Or do you just go back with here's the value to a person for this?
01:01:55.440 --> 01:01:58.000
If we get it done in one day, we get it done in one day.
01:01:58.079 --> 01:02:00.239
If we get it done in five days, we get it in five days.
01:02:00.639 --> 01:02:05.519
It's not the time that's the important thing, it's the deliverable that's the important thing.
01:02:05.760 --> 01:02:07.840
So I think there's a lot of things that need to be looked at.
01:02:07.920 --> 01:02:30.480
And I think everyone has different viewpoints and opinions on this, but I think we're in that transition period because everyone's talking about this from the TNM and consulting point of view, because AI has really increased the efficiency, not just in development, in documentation, in research, in um creating guides, creating SOWs.
01:02:30.639 --> 01:02:35.119
I can name the number of different things where I've seen AI far outside of development, right?
01:02:35.280 --> 01:02:36.400
Even personal training.
01:02:36.480 --> 01:02:38.960
I've seen people come up with personal training plans using AI.
01:02:39.039 --> 01:02:46.000
And I'm not saying they're all perfect, but again, I can go to personal trainer A and personal trainer B, and they won't give me the same training plan.
01:02:46.159 --> 01:02:48.239
And one of them may be better than the other.
01:02:48.480 --> 01:02:51.760
So it's not a matter of AI is going to always be perfect.
01:02:51.840 --> 01:02:54.079
You know, a lot of people try to say, oh, A is wrong.
01:02:54.320 --> 01:02:58.239
But every single one of us here has done something incorrectly as well.
01:02:58.480 --> 01:03:00.800
So uh I just yeah.
01:03:00.960 --> 01:03:02.239
Sorry, but no, no, I'm done.
01:03:03.360 --> 01:03:05.519
You I just like an epiphany on what you said.
01:03:05.679 --> 01:03:11.119
See, I the lot of you know, a lot of you I just realized something.
01:03:11.280 --> 01:03:17.599
So you say that you know that this the AI and the efficiency and everything else is a value to everything.
01:03:17.760 --> 01:03:18.880
See, here's an interesting thing.
01:03:18.960 --> 01:03:23.760
I feel that in our world, there really isn't a bidding process.
01:03:24.000 --> 01:03:30.159
The problem is the customer doesn't know what are the possible ways that a cost of something would be.
01:03:30.320 --> 01:03:36.559
Because normally, if you do an implementation, you sign up with someone and you just go with them and you figure out from there, right?
01:03:36.719 --> 01:03:45.920
A lot of customers don't buy, don't do the bidding process mainly because either the license play or they they're not educated enough to really get three, four quotes from someone, right?
01:03:46.159 --> 01:03:52.480
I think the world would be different if you, you know, you know what it's worth, but then do you know how much it's gonna cost?
01:03:52.559 --> 01:03:57.679
Even when people go and hire from recruiters from recruiters, I thought that's kind of a weakness in the way they do it.
01:03:57.840 --> 01:03:58.960
Do you go and find a person?
01:03:59.039 --> 01:04:13.119
Sure, you look at the qualifications, maybe you make a good judgment, maybe you don't, you know, you find out the early rate, but at the end of the day, you don't really know how much it's gonna, you know, if that's the best way to achieve that, if that's the only way to achieve that, you know.
01:04:13.280 --> 01:04:14.480
I mean, here's the question.
01:04:14.559 --> 01:04:25.599
You know, imagine if in our world we had a way where basically someone customer could put a you know a project out there, whether that's an implementation, whether that's something afterwards, and then they get bids on it.
01:04:25.920 --> 01:04:28.079
Would you participate in something like that?
01:04:31.039 --> 01:04:32.639
That's that's an interesting one.
01:04:32.719 --> 01:04:35.360
Uh I'm going to close with this, uh, with this example.
01:04:35.440 --> 01:04:44.159
Uh but with a quote, and it was really a quote, or something that I learned through sales, and then it was this example.
01:04:44.800 --> 01:04:52.159
Uh organizations and ultimately buyers buy services with certain expectations.
01:04:52.639 --> 01:04:57.360
Um, how much uh value will I bring to my organization, right?
01:04:58.079 --> 01:05:11.360
The likelihood of that person delivering the service according to what I need and how much is going to cost me, not just in terms of budget, how much will have to participate in it.
01:05:12.000 --> 01:05:17.119
And that all mm umpects the value equation.
01:05:17.280 --> 01:05:23.199
And if I'm above the value threshold, uh I made a sales, I made a buy.
01:05:23.519 --> 01:05:38.639
So um three years ago I started working with this organization in Dublin, a wonderful um company with branches across Europe and they work with hospitals and clinics and they provide medical equipment um including surgical tools.
01:05:38.800 --> 01:05:48.719
So imagine inventory management kind of quality issue, you know, management in that you need to you know to follow uh if you deliver things that are going to Neopolitan theatre.
01:05:50.400 --> 01:05:59.760
We started talking about intermigration, and the IT manager said we don't have the bandwidth and we don't have the capacity, and we have a legacy system now.
01:06:01.039 --> 01:06:07.360
That it's now off support, and we don't know how many people put their hands in that system.
01:06:07.519 --> 01:06:25.679
So we we it was I know the AT manager said that it's going to be so that you will find anything in there, and we don't want our team to touch it because they will make mistakes and they will try to bring bad data into the new system.
01:06:26.480 --> 01:06:29.039
I want you guys to manage that for me.
01:06:29.519 --> 01:06:36.000
And says, Well, we don't really we don't typically do it, it's your data it doesn't matter how much it costs, you quote me for that.
01:06:37.199 --> 01:06:40.880
And what I want, I want a clean system with no data errors.
01:06:42.000 --> 01:06:53.760
So as you and as you can imagine, that ended up being an astronomical figure that I put together, that I helped the uh the data team at the time I was working for a large partner.
01:06:54.400 --> 01:07:03.519
And we put together that how we we didn't have the strategy for that, so I put together developer now, the SQL, data extraction, data model, data cleansing, fine duplicates.
01:07:03.599 --> 01:07:04.639
I mean, as you can imagine.
01:07:04.880 --> 01:07:06.559
I'm not going to technically it was a night.
01:07:07.440 --> 01:07:10.800
We ended up with an estimate and said, but this is the first time we do that.
01:07:10.880 --> 01:07:12.960
We ended up with, I don't know, 50 days.
01:07:13.679 --> 01:07:22.079
And so we said, okay, double that up and go back to the client and say, so this is the figure because there was so much uncertainty.
01:07:22.239 --> 01:07:46.239
We ended up doubling that figure, going to the client, and the client says, It took that IT manager 50 seconds to say, okay, because he knew that the cost of getting his team to work with that kind of data was so high, and the risks of making mistakes were just unbearable.
01:07:46.400 --> 01:07:48.320
The price was no longer a problem.
01:07:49.280 --> 01:08:02.639
They they went live last year, they and ended up um even though I stopped working with our partner years, and soon after the discovery, uh, when I started working, I started D3 D3 surviving training.
01:08:02.719 --> 01:08:06.639
The same IT manager called me afraid of I want you to come back and work with us.
01:08:06.960 --> 01:08:16.880
And they went live, and it was very fine, very complex go live for an organization with 12 legal entities in different regions, enormous uh amount of work.
01:08:17.359 --> 01:08:21.199
Data migration, a few hiccups, smooth.
01:08:21.600 --> 01:08:28.800
The IT manager said, you know what, the best part of this project, we don't we didn't have to touch the data from our legacy system.
01:08:29.039 --> 01:08:33.760
And so that is something that we don't always uh you know consider.
01:08:35.279 --> 01:08:42.560
How much will it cost the client to do what we don't do, what he what we can deliver?
01:08:42.720 --> 01:08:53.680
And that might be something that we don't sell, but if they perceive the value in us, then our then it's no longer about the daily rate and all the rate can go up.
01:08:54.239 --> 01:09:15.199
The fact that I helped three life science um companies go live in the last six years, all deriving to the NHS, the local, the national health system in England, made me the perfect fit for an organization that needs to deliver the same service to a hospital because I knew about you know their processes.
01:09:15.279 --> 01:09:18.640
And then the risk of getting it wrong is low.
01:09:18.960 --> 01:09:24.720
The likelihood of getting it right, right, and that's what drives the delay.
01:09:24.960 --> 01:09:26.479
So who decides the daily rate?
01:09:26.640 --> 01:09:28.159
Thank God for free market.
01:09:28.800 --> 01:09:29.119
Right?
01:09:29.600 --> 01:09:31.199
No, I think there's a lot there.
01:09:31.359 --> 01:09:35.600
I I do want to throw back just um you you hit on some key points with the value.
01:09:35.680 --> 01:09:39.520
There's the value to the customer, and there's many things that go into considering the value.
01:09:39.680 --> 01:09:44.239
Also, uh, we talk about Chris to go back to the points with the AI efficiency, just to double back on that.
01:09:44.399 --> 01:09:48.640
It's just because we can do it faster doesn't necessarily mean it's cheaper.
01:09:48.800 --> 01:10:02.399
And and I didn't want to come across that way if I said that, because sometimes it's the experience, as you had mentioned, Alfredo, just now, and I wanted to get into the experience of the person orchestrating a project has a lot of value to it.
01:10:02.560 --> 01:10:17.039
So it's just because AI can do something in three minutes doesn't mean the person that is orchestrating the AI has the same ability to get something, the same quality of stuff generated in three minutes.
01:10:17.199 --> 01:10:18.239
I want to put that out there.
01:10:18.399 --> 01:10:21.039
I think that's important um as well.
01:10:21.760 --> 01:10:26.000
Well, Christy Alfredo, I could talk about this topic for days.
01:10:26.159 --> 01:10:28.159
I do believe we're all in a transition period here.
01:10:28.239 --> 01:10:46.000
I do think that the subscription model, as you call it, or the I don't want to say fixed bid, but having the model where somebody can um know exactly what they're getting and they have a cost, has a space, and I also just do see a space still where we have to say there's some time and materials because there really isn't a way to quantify um the output.
01:10:46.079 --> 01:10:47.520
I think, in my opinion, that's a mix.
01:10:47.600 --> 01:10:49.279
I know everybody has different opinions with those.
01:10:49.840 --> 01:10:52.239
But um I appreciate taking the time to speak with us today.
01:10:52.319 --> 01:10:54.319
Um, like I said, we could talk about this for days.
01:10:54.399 --> 01:11:04.399
If anyone wanted to get in contact with you, talk a little bit more about your services, um, the model that you have, and uh anything else um that you can share on implementations.
01:11:04.479 --> 01:11:06.880
Christy, what's the best way to get in contact with you?
01:11:07.520 --> 01:11:10.239
Just through the website, awollyraiser.com.
01:11:10.560 --> 01:11:11.359
Okay, great, thank you.
01:11:11.520 --> 01:11:12.319
Alfredo?
01:11:13.279 --> 01:11:19.680
And for me, it's either LinkedIn or my website, d365training.com.
01:11:19.920 --> 01:11:20.800
Uh great, thank you very much.
01:11:20.880 --> 01:11:21.840
It was a pleasure speaking to both.
01:11:21.920 --> 01:11:22.880
Look forward to talking to you again soon.
01:11:22.960 --> 01:11:24.239
Uh, thank you for your time, really appreciate it.
01:11:24.319 --> 01:11:24.800
Chao, ciao.
01:11:24.880 --> 01:11:25.279
Take care, everyone.
01:11:26.399 --> 01:11:26.640
Bye.
01:11:27.920 --> 01:11:33.119
Thank you, Chris, for your time for another episode of In the Dynamics Corner Chair.
01:11:33.199 --> 01:11:35.199
And thank you to our guests for participating.
01:11:35.520 --> 01:11:37.039
Thank you, Brad, for your time.
01:11:37.199 --> 01:11:40.720
It is a wonderful episode of Dynamics Corner Chair.
01:11:40.880 --> 01:11:44.239
I would also like to thank our guests for joining us.
01:11:44.479 --> 01:11:47.199
Thank you for all of our listeners tuning in as well.
01:11:47.439 --> 01:11:51.279
You can find Brad at developerlife.com.
01:11:51.520 --> 01:11:55.840
That is D V L P R L I F E dot com.
01:11:56.079 --> 01:12:01.600
And you can interact with them via Twitter, D V L P R L I F E.
01:12:02.239 --> 01:12:14.960
You can also find me at mattalino.io, m-a-t-a-l-in-o.io, and my Twitter handle is Mattalino16.
01:12:15.840 --> 01:12:18.720
And see you can see those links down below in the show notes.
01:12:18.880 --> 01:12:20.079
Again, thank you everyone.
01:12:20.319 --> 01:12:22.000
Thank you, and take care.
